Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Lilly77
    • By Lilly77 9th Jul 18, 12:24 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Lilly77
    Superfast fibre to the box, then copper to the house?
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:24 PM
    Superfast fibre to the box, then copper to the house? 9th Jul 18 at 12:24 PM
    Hello all, I'm hoping someone out there may have experience of this. I'm currently trying to change provider for broadband and phone. Our current internet speed is 0.3 and our chances of increasing this are limited. Whilst we live in a super fast broadband area, we are reliant on copper cabling running from the box to the house. When trying to switch, providers argue that because there is superfast broadband available our area, we aren't eligible for the standard tariff and would need to pay for fibre. We would therefore be paying for a service and speed which can't be delivered. I'd be grateful if anyone with experience could help me navigate this issue.

    Many Thanks

    Lilly
Page 1
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 9th Jul 18, 12:34 PM
    • 3,385 Posts
    • 986 Thanks
    AndyPK
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:34 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:34 PM
    you misunderstand.


    Standard will give you 0.3
    Fibre will give you around 30


    Suppliers don't want you to sign up to standard as you will be an unhappy customer on 0.3


    It makes sense to pay for fibre.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 9th Jul 18, 12:37 PM
    • 33,867 Posts
    • 39,998 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:37 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:37 PM
    And long term plans will remove old ADSL products anyway
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Lilly77
    • By Lilly77 9th Jul 18, 12:47 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lilly77
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:47 PM
    Thanks Andy
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:47 PM
    Thanks so much Andy. That's really helpful. So even on copper, paying for fibre could increase our speed?
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 9th Jul 18, 12:53 PM
    • 5,236 Posts
    • 3,753 Thanks
    heatherw_01
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:53 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:53 PM
    Thanks so much Andy. That's really helpful. So even on copper, paying for fibre could increase our speed?
    Originally posted by Lilly77
    yes
    I am on FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) which is copper cabling to the house
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 9th Jul 18, 12:55 PM
    • 3,542 Posts
    • 20,278 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:55 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:55 PM
    Most properties in a fibre enabled area in the UK are FTTC (as said above) rather than full fibre all the way. FTTP (fibre all the way) is fairly rare, and often only in new build estates.

    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 9th Jul 18, 12:57 PM
    • 10,953 Posts
    • 11,494 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:57 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:57 PM
    So even on copper, paying for fibre could increase our speed?
    Originally posted by Lilly77
    Yes - it will definitely increase your speed. You should be able to get a speed estimate and/or guarantee from your prospective supplier.

    Depending on your provider, the difference in cost between ADSL and Fibre may not be vast, either. e.g. Plusnet 18 Month contract, the difference is currently 4pm.

    I'm not sure of the figures, but I expect that many/most Fibre customers have copper wires between the cabinet and their home.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 09-07-2018 at 1:04 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Lilly77
    • By Lilly77 9th Jul 18, 1:41 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lilly77
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 1:41 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 1:41 PM
    Brilliant! Many thanks to all of your for your helpful replies!
    • Mister G
    • By Mister G 9th Jul 18, 2:40 PM
    • 804 Posts
    • 474 Thanks
    Mister G
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:40 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:40 PM
    If you put your phone number into this

    https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/

    it will tell you your estimated VDSL speed (FTTC) - Downstream line speed.

    You will also see the estimate of your current ADSL speed.
    • *j*
    • By *j* 9th Jul 18, 3:00 PM
    • 257 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    *j*
    I live about 6km from the exchange and used to get about 1Mb/s on ADSL, but when fibre arrived it went up to 30 Mb/s.


    The speed is meant to be about 38Mb/s at the cabinet, so the 700 metres of copper from the cabinet to home is what reduces the speed to 30Mb/s.


    Your speed on fibre will be determined almost exclusively by your distance from the cabinet. How far is that?
    Last edited by *j*; 09-07-2018 at 3:02 PM.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 9th Jul 18, 3:33 PM
    • 5,313 Posts
    • 5,215 Thanks
    DoaM
    Your speed on fibre will be determined almost exclusively by your distance from the cabinet. How far is that?
    Originally posted by *j*
    This is the crucial question.

    In my case the FTTC box is approx. 450m (assuming the cable follows the road), and that would align with the approx. 36Meg synch speed I get.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Colin_Maybe
    • By Colin_Maybe 9th Jul 18, 4:11 PM
    • 3,079 Posts
    • 1,596 Thanks
    Colin_Maybe
    If you put your phone number into this

    https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/

    it will tell you your estimated VDSL speed (FTTC) - Downstream line speed.

    You will also see the estimate of your current ADSL speed.
    Originally posted by Mister G
    That only works if you're already with BT, otherwise you need to use the address checker which is less accurate but still near enough.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 9th Jul 18, 4:26 PM
    • 1,727 Posts
    • 1,471 Thanks
    Carrot007
    In my village ADSL would get me 0.1. FTTC gets me 60 (you might want to pay cheaper for the 40 capped one).
    • *j*
    • By *j* 9th Jul 18, 4:44 PM
    • 257 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    *j*
    In my village ADSL would get me 0.1. FTTC gets me 60 (you might want to pay cheaper for the 40 capped one).
    Originally posted by Carrot007

    Yes that's one of the prices we pay for living in the relative middle of nowhere, about 25 miles from central London. Together with no noise from busses going past, no disturbance from street lights, frequent power cuts, no disturbance from the postman until well after lunch, no reliable cellphone signal, no police and a long wait for an ambulance should the need arise.


    Nevertheless, I'm happy to make those sacrifices until perhaps I need the ambulance.
    • takman
    • By takman 1st Aug 18, 4:55 PM
    • 3,777 Posts
    • 3,436 Thanks
    takman
    I live about 6km from the exchange and used to get about 1Mb/s on ADSL, but when fibre arrived it went up to 30 Mb/s.

    The speed is meant to be about 38Mb/s at the cabinet, so the 700 metres of copper from the cabinet to home is what reduces the speed to 30Mb/s.

    Your speed on fibre will be determined almost exclusively by your distance from the cabinet. How far is that?
    Originally posted by *j*
    It's worth point out that isn't correct. Fibre optic cable does not loose speed over length and the speed at the cabinet (from what i have read) is usually 10 Gb/s to allow enough bandwidth for all the connections.

    There is a table on this page that shows the loss of speed due to length of copper cable and this applies to every cabinet with fibre:

    https://www.thinkbroadband.com/guides/fibre-fttc-ftth-broadband-guide
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 1st Aug 18, 5:26 PM
    • 3,101 Posts
    • 4,078 Thanks
    unforeseen
    If you are provisioned under the BBUK scheme, E. G. you have an EO line and they install a cab outside the exchange to connect you, you are only supplied with a maximum data rate of 30Mb. You might connect at a faster rate but data transfer will be limited to 30Mb.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 1st Aug 18, 8:08 PM
    • 9,379 Posts
    • 7,042 Thanks
    pmduk
    no disturbance from the postman until well after lunch, no police and a long wait for an ambulance should the need arise.
    Originally posted by *j*
    These days, you can expect all of these in major cities as well.
    • steve_blake1490667
    • By steve_blake1490667 2nd Aug 18, 8:28 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    steve_blake1490667
    If you are provisioned under the BBUK scheme, E. G. you have an EO line and they install a cab outside the exchange to connect you, you are only supplied with a maximum data rate of 30Mb. You might connect at a faster rate but data transfer will be limited to 30Mb.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    What?! Not sure where you heard this from but its utter rubbish. Regardless of whether your FTTC cab is funded by BDUK or not, or whether its located outside the exchange or not, Openreach will NOT limit speeds to 30 Mbps on FTTC under normal line conditions. Your actual speeds on FTTC will be close to the modem sync rate which largely depends on how far you are from the FTTC cabinet (ie length of copper involved).

    I suspect you might referring to 'banding' on FTTC in which the FTTC DLM artificially puts a speed cap on a FTTC line (eg 30/40/50/60 Mbps etc) which will be capable of much higher speeds. Banding can be extremely difficult to remove, however this can occur on any FTTC line, not just those on ex-EO lines or BDUK funded cabs.
    Last edited by steve_blake1490667; 02-08-2018 at 8:30 PM.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 2nd Aug 18, 9:35 PM
    • 3,101 Posts
    • 4,078 Thanks
    unforeseen
    What?! Not sure where you heard this from but its utter rubbish. Regardless of whether your FTTC cab is funded by BDUK or not, or whether its located outside the exchange or not, Openreach will NOT limit speeds to 30 Mbps on FTTC under normal line conditions. Your actual speeds on FTTC will be close to the modem sync rate which largely depends on how far you are from the FTTC cabinet (ie length of copper involved).

    I suspect you might referring to 'banding' on FTTC in which the FTTC DLM artificially puts a speed cap on a FTTC line (eg 30/40/50/60 Mbps etc) which will be capable of much higher speeds. Banding can be extremely difficult to remove, however this can occur on any FTTC line, not just those on ex-EO lines or BDUK funded cabs.
    Originally posted by steve_blake1490667
    In which case Connecting Cheshire who were responsible for my connection lied to me when they said they would only provision 30Mb.

    However, being 500yds from the exchange I can only get 29-30Mb and ISPs I asked when FTTC became available told me that I could only get up to 30Mb.

    Its not a line quality problem because I had the full 8Mb on ADSL.
    • steve_blake1490667
    • By steve_blake1490667 2nd Aug 18, 9:45 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    steve_blake1490667
    In which case Connecting Cheshire who were responsible for my connection lied to me when they said they would only provision 30Mb.

    However, being 500yds from the exchange I can only get 29-30Mb and ISPs I asked when FTTC became available told me that I could only get up to 30Mb.

    Its not a line quality problem because I had the full 8Mb on ADSL.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    Its Openreach who supply the FTTC service through your ISP - not 'Connecting Cheshire' who I suspect are just your local BDUK authority. Openreach offer just 2 download speed tiers on FTTC - up to 40 Mbps or 80 Mbps- what speeds you actually get are determined by which package you've paid for and the clever DLM residing inside the FTTC cabinet.
    Last edited by steve_blake1490667; 02-08-2018 at 9:47 PM.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

217Posts Today

2,764Users online

Martin's Twitter