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  • FIRST POST
    • KjDot
    • By KjDot 8th Jul 18, 11:35 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    KjDot
    CIFAS category 6 marker please help!!!
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:35 PM
    CIFAS category 6 marker please help!!! 8th Jul 18 at 11:35 PM
    Please help me I believe I have a cifas category 6 marker. I’m 16 and I am not an active card user. Around the end of March this year I lost my card and the temporary phone I was using (which had all my details in it). I did not have any money on it and since I had exams coming up I decided to focus on my grades and revising. Then around mid June I got a letter saying that Lloyd’s are giving me 60 days as they are closing my account. From this my Halifax account also closed (which was my savings account),I then I opened a NatWest and after about 2/3 weeks o got a letter saying that the account will close. On closure they sent me a letter telling me to do a SAR on Cifas but as I am 16 I cannot do it, but NatWest and Halifax both hinted at me that I had a cat 6 on my record. Straight away I check the online banking of my Lloyd’s and between April and May somebody was moving large amounts of money on my card and withdrawing it and I wasn’t notified once. Now I have a permanent phone, my exams just finished and I cancelled the card that I lost but can somebody help me on what I do from here please. I really don’t understand what is happening.
Page 1
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 8th Jul 18, 11:51 PM
    • 24,944 Posts
    • 12,159 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:51 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:51 PM
    First time poster - welcome to MSE.
    I promise to be nice but IMO I doubt whether this is a true story as written.
    Prove to us that this is not made up - scan a photo of one of the letters (masking all private information of course).

    I don't believe you can have a CIFAS marker before the age of 18.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • Armorica
    • By Armorica 9th Jul 18, 12:04 AM
    • 731 Posts
    • 547 Thanks
    Armorica
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:04 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:04 AM
    Ouch.

    Did you report the card lost at the time? (You really should have done, but it sounds like you didn't) Do you have any evidence that you last your card? (I suspect not either - and why was your phone temporary?)

    You need a more detailed conversation with Lloyds. That may be a problem as they may consider you a fraudster, or a money mule at best.

    Your card shouldn't be enough for significant amounts to move through your accounts.

    Did you have your pin number written down/kept with the card/stored in your phone?

    You need to tell Lloyds that you lost your card and it wasn't you making those transactions. Ask if there was a change of address or phone details on the account - and how those changes were authorised.

    Do you have any dubious friends/family that might have done this? (And of course, even to yourself, is the reality that you let someone else use your account but think acknowledging this would be a bad thing?)

    Why do you think you can't make SAR? (https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/2014223/subject-access-code-of-practice.pdf page 16 of the attached implies you can) although I imagine you can't meet their ID requirements (more research needed to see if they can actually refuse a SAR tho...)


    case 139/4, 139/5 and 139/6 is also relevant http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/139/139-complaints-involving-under-25s.html

    139/6 implies that cifas under 18 is possible (but not explicit)
    Last edited by Armorica; 09-07-2018 at 12:12 AM.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 9th Jul 18, 12:09 AM
    • 32,104 Posts
    • 20,198 Thanks
    DCFC79
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:09 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:09 AM
    Cancelling the card and getting the sim card cancelled wouldnt have impacted on your revision.
    • KjDot
    • By KjDot 9th Jul 18, 12:31 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KjDot
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:31 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:31 AM
    Yes I had my PIN number stored on my phone... the phone was temporary because my phone broke I!!!8217;m March and when I asked my parents for a new one, they said they!!!8217;ll get me one after my exams but I should work hard for it which is why I focused on it so it would pay off.

    Despite the fact the phone was temporary When I set it up with my email it had all my notes on it including my banking details. No I!!!8217;m 100% that no family or friends had access to my account.
    • Armorica
    • By Armorica 9th Jul 18, 12:41 AM
    • 731 Posts
    • 547 Thanks
    Armorica
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:41 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:41 AM
    And no phone unlock PIN or biometric id set on your phone?

    Never store your card PIN on your phone...your best bet is talking to Lloyds, then CIFAS then FOS. There are plenty of things Lloyds won't talk to you about, so you may need an independent third party like FOS who they will share information with.
    • KjDot
    • By KjDot 9th Jul 18, 12:52 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KjDot
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:52 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 12:52 AM
    How do I talk to Cifas and FOS please I am really trying to get all of this sorted this week despite the fact I know absolutely almost nothing about it, like I only found out about Cifas recently
    • Armorica
    • By Armorica 9th Jul 18, 1:32 AM
    • 731 Posts
    • 547 Thanks
    Armorica
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 1:32 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 1:32 AM
    It won't get sorted out this week - it's not a quick process.

    Start with Lloyds and try to find out a bit more about what happened and how the withdrawals were paid (all via cash withdrawals or via online transfer and if there were changes to e.g. addresses and mobile details). Whatever happens there isn't much hope as by not reporting your card or phone lost, let someone else manage your account and impersonate you.

    The contact CIFAS
    https://www.cifas.org.uk/contact-us/subject-access-request
    You need a SAR. You'll however probably have to ring them as I imagine you don't meet the ID requirements so call on 0330 100 0180 after having read the SAR page and the form. https://www.cifas.org.uk/secure/contentPORT/uploads/documents/Forms/External-Subject%20Access%20Request%20form.pdf and ask what proof of identity they'll accept given you are 16 and have little/no documentation in your name. (Or just apply if you do happen to have the right ID).

    Probably best then coming back here...
    • KjDot
    • By KjDot 9th Jul 18, 10:05 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KjDot
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:05 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:05 AM
    I see, while I do that is there any bank account that I could possibly open in the meanwhile such as a metro or anything else?
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 9th Jul 18, 3:26 PM
    • 589 Posts
    • 377 Thanks
    18cc
    You will not be able to open a bank account anywhere in the UK with a Cat 6 fraud marker. I believe they last 6 years but I am happy to be corrected.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 9th Jul 18, 4:51 PM
    • 2,483 Posts
    • 1,673 Thanks
    Vortigern
    I see, while I do that is there any bank account that I could possibly open in the meanwhile such as a metro or anything else?
    Originally posted by KjDot
    You could try opening a savings account with a building society.
    • KjDot
    • By KjDot 15th Jul 18, 11:37 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KjDot
    Update: I have contacted Cifas and I!!!8217;ve sent my letter for them to send it back with all the information held upon my name. Could you recommend a building society for me please.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 15th Jul 18, 12:14 PM
    • 32,104 Posts
    • 20,198 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Update: I have contacted Cifas and I!!!8217;ve sent my letter for them to send it back with all the information held upon my name. Could you recommend a building society for me please.
    Originally posted by KjDot
    Pick 1 that's local so if you are asked to go into store it's not much hassle.

    Whether your accepted not sure if anyone can say.
    Last edited by DCFC79; 15-07-2018 at 12:34 PM.
    • T-G-C
    • By T-G-C 15th Jul 18, 12:22 PM
    • 273 Posts
    • 99 Thanks
    T-G-C
    First time poster - welcome to MSE.
    I promise to be nice but IMO I doubt whether this is a true story as written.
    Prove to us that this is not made up - scan a photo of one of the letters (masking all private information of course).

    I don't believe you can have a CIFAS marker before the age of 18.
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    I believe in exceptional circumstances, the bank might still be able to put the customer on the CIFAS register, as they are in fact legally compelled to do this or they are also breaking the law and allowing money laundering to continue through other banking services, as the customer would be able to open an account elsewhere, which a CIFAS flag will essentially stop.

    Unless there is a technicality which strictly prohibits those under the age of 18 from being on the CIFAS register, I believe it may certainly be possible and once they come of age, it should show on their credit file. Not the most pleasant of things to have on your CRA records at 18...

    How their bank account could be used for money laundering is beyond me. Unless someone had the PIN to that debit card, they still wouldn't successfully withdraw from a cash machine. The only other alternative is in branch, in which the "person" would need legible ID to prove they are the account holder, the debit card alone wouldn't satisfy security for this very reason.

    I am sorry, but if your situation is genuinely real OP, I am afraid you won't have much appealing this at all. The bank has a legal obligation to prevent, detect and report illegitimate use of the network - by not reporting the account as compromised and leaving this activity to continue until caught, you essentially "allowed" it to happen and are therefore the liable party. Most cases are actually passed to the National Crime Agency by the bank, so if someone else did do this without your knowledge, perhaps the police may be interested to find out who it was.

    Overall, luckily this has happened at the age of 16, as it will expire by age 22, although nevertheless it isn't a great start to your financial life. Even an 18 year old with a clean history struggles to obtain a decent credit offer, you will find it next to impossible until you are removed from the CIFAS register. You may be able to obtain a basic bank account, offered to those who are not eligible for mainstream, but acceptance is at the sole discretion of the banks.
    All advice provided is intended for guidance purposes only. For specialized debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange.
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 15th Jul 18, 12:48 PM
    • 589 Posts
    • 377 Thanks
    18cc
    try a Yorkshire Building Society (not bank) cashcard account - open it online - it has a sort code and account no so you can pay in money, salary etc in, and comes with a card you can use to withdraw money at ATMs. No Direct debits etc allowed of course.
    • KjDot
    • By KjDot 15th Jul 18, 10:51 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KjDot
    I see. Obviously I am still going to continue to talk to the bank about it when the Cifas report comes. Will I be unable to get a job, and go to uni as I am supposed to be going to uni in 2 years time. Also will this restrict me from getting a mortgage? All of this has really affected me, I have lost sleep because of this however, I can understand that I left it too long as I was focused on my education.
    • T-G-C
    • By T-G-C 16th Jul 18, 11:40 AM
    • 273 Posts
    • 99 Thanks
    T-G-C
    I see. Obviously I am still going to continue to talk to the bank about it when the Cifas report comes. Will I be unable to get a job, and go to uni as I am supposed to be going to uni in 2 years time. Also will this restrict me from getting a mortgage? All of this has really affected me, I have lost sleep because of this however, I can understand that I left it too long as I was focused on my education.
    Originally posted by KjDot
    1. CIFAS will not affect employment in general, unless a credit / fraud check is performed, which can be the case in some roles, particularly those with financial responsibility.

    2. CIFAS will not affect university in general, although I cannot confirm whether this would affect a student loan application, however I can almost guarantee you will not be eligible for a student bank overdraft, which most graduates use these days because of no charge offers.

    3. CIFAS will certainly prevent you obtaining a mortgage, including most credit products e.g credit cards; loans etc. until it expires in 2024. This is because lenders will usually never extend credit to someone who is registered on a fraud database, the only exception is protective registration which is what victims of fraud (not committing it, in your case) are placed on and doesn't stop them obtaining credit, just more extensive checks.

    I wouldn't lose sleep over it, learn the from your mistake and keep a watchful eye on your finances in the future to avoid this happening again.
    Last edited by T-G-C; Yesterday at 11:43 AM.
    All advice provided is intended for guidance purposes only. For specialized debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange.
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