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  • FIRST POST
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 8th Jul 18, 8:55 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 5Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Itís got to the court stage
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:55 PM
    Itís got to the court stage 8th Jul 18 at 8:55 PM
    Hi All,
    I have spent a few days reading the various forums concerning private parking companies and tho I donít claim to have read it every single thread I think I am safe in starting a new thread. I have also read the newbies FAQ.

    Basically i have 2 situations concerning both my sons. I have slapped them on the wrist so we need to move to the next stage if possible.

    We live in a small estate that is managed. Due to issues caused by non-resident parking, the management company brought in a parking management company who issued one single parking permit per household. Each house and flat has an allocated parking spot and there are 14 additional ones where visitors can park so as not to park in the wrong place. Basically the parking companies issued so many PCNs to residents and following multiple complaints to the management company, the parking management company did not have their contract renewed so they no longer operate in the area. They were active for 13 months in the area.

    The problem is this - during the 13 months they were here, my boys were issued with several pcns which they ignored. (I appreciate they should not have done this but that is the situation). For one son, a claim is in the county court for just under £3k - and a hearing is imminent. The other son is facing a claim of just over 2k

    For the other son, a pre-court letter has arrived with an invitation to mediation or ADR.
    I have sent the statement of defence for son #1 which i can post a redacted copy if needed and for son #2 i waited TIL day 26 and sent a response claiming that the management company had given us to understand that they were protecting resident spaces from non-residents and importantly that the one parking permit issued had our address displayed and so was in breach of data protection, was unsafe and a security risk
    .
    Even the DVLA do not expect you to display your address on your vehicle.

    Beauty_in_colour
Page 3
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 6th Aug 18, 11:15 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Fabulous fabulous fabulous news. We won and the case was dismissed! I will send more details later but I just wanted to thank you all again.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Aug 18, 11:26 AM
    • 19,807 Posts
    • 31,280 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Brilliant news. Lifted my morning.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 6th Aug 18, 12:02 PM
    • 3,722 Posts
    • 4,532 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Greta news!

    Did you get costs?
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 6th Aug 18, 12:36 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    I was so relieved I forgot about cost. I did mention it at one point and the judge said I was jumping the gun a bit cos he hadn!!!8217;t made his judgement yet and then after that I forgot. Is it too late to submit and claim?
    Also on the same case my son was given a judgement in February and he paid £440 to Gladstones solicitors. I did memntion in the witness statement that if our defence was successful we would be claiming that back. Any idea how to go about it or should we let sleeping dogs lie?
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 6th Aug 18, 12:53 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Ok so in a nutshell here is how it went. The judge asked for my rental agreement which he perused for about 10 mins then asked NPM to state their case. It was quite pathetic. She was inarticulate and jumped from one issue to the next but then kept referring to the agreement between the management agents and themselves. The judge managed to establish (after giving her a few illustrated scenarios to help her) that she didn!!!8217;t even know who the owner of the land was.

    She tried to say I had breached their data because I had posted their details on a online forum (here) including the name and title of their officer who had issued their letter - anyway the judge quickly dismissed that as irrelevant before I could give her a lesson in GDPR and public officers.

    The judge then turned to us and quickly established by our rent agreement that we had been here since 2013 and that we had supremacy of contract, that one cannot unilaterally vary a contract without the agreement of both parties, that our rights as tenants were being undermined, that NPM had no legal right to impose their contract on us, that ownership is not an easy concept to prove. He also noted from the agreement which had not been given to us that the contract was terminated 12 months into a 3 year contract. No wonder they didn!!!8217;t want us to see it.

    2 case laws came up - pace v Mr N, which I had raised re supremacy of contract and also parking eye v Beavis cos I had challenged their genuine pre estimation of anticipated loss. The judge said this was based on a Supreme Court ruling but I made the point that this was based on issues with a commercial car park and that our cases were not factually similar. The judges asked NPM what she though about that and she had nothing to say. So here is one to consider in their one size fits all penalty. In a private car park there is no loss of earnings.

    So the judge dismissed the case.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 6th Aug 18, 1:08 PM
    • 3,722 Posts
    • 4,532 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    1) You could write an ask for your ordinary costs, so half a days loss of leave OR earnings, capped at £95, mileage, parking OR public transprt. Include copies of any receitps etc to prove this claim. Apologise and ask if the Judge would consider making an order as relates to these ordinary costs, as in the hear of the moment you forgot. Be nice, youre asking for a favour, in essence.

    2) Did you tell Gladstones it was paid under protest? Any relation to this case? If not then that was foolish, however what you could do is think about raising a claim> to do that you would send a LBA first, TO THE CLAIMANT and NOT their solicitors. Youd need to explain more about how come this prior judgement (or was it just a payment without a court judgement?) has bearing here.
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 6th Aug 18, 1:19 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Thank you, I will write and ask for the ordinary costs. I printed it and took it with me but just forgot to submit it. Actually am I able to include my time as the lay representative or does it have to be just the litigant in person (defendant!!!8217;s) cost?
    To be honest I am inclined to leave it. I am tired had he come to me earlier it would not have happened. I want him to chalk this one down to experience.
    Re your second point no he did not tell Gladstones it was paid under protest. It was a ccj that would have applied had he not paid it within the stipulated 28 days
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 6th Aug 18, 1:21 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Sorry that last bit didn!!!8217;t make sense. I will pursue the costs but am inclined to leave the claim against the payment made to Gladstones. My son will have to chalk that one down to experience.
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 6th Aug 18, 1:26 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Here!!!8217;s another question, I mentioned right at the beginning that my other son had an LBC and we!!!8217;ve been in correspondence with NPM regarding this following the newbies sticky #2.
    Would an appropriate action be to write to them to say following on from today!!!8217;s case that they would do well not to continue with that action? Incidentally we have also received an LBC for my partner for PCNs allegedly given in December for a car she sold the previous September.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Aug 18, 5:51 AM
    • 3,664 Posts
    • 5,995 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Here!!!8217;s another question, I mentioned right at the beginning that my other son had an LBC and we!!!8217;ve been in correspondence with NPM regarding this following the newbies sticky #2.
    Would an appropriate action be to write to them to say following on from today!!!8217;s case that they would do well not to continue with that action? Incidentally we have also received an LBC for my partner for PCNs allegedly given in December for a car she sold the previous September.
    Why not write to them and invite them to drop it based on the result of the claim. Add that you will be asking for costs for their unreasonable behaviour given they clearly know about the case. For your partner's one add that she was neither the keeper or driver at the time and has no liability. Get proof you sent them the letter to show the court if they deny receiving it.

    Also with your partner's one, also check she has changed the address at the DVLA for her licence and car registration.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 07-08-2018 at 5:53 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 8th Aug 18, 9:13 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Yes my partner definitely changed the address at the DVLA. I was with her when she did this. I have written to NPM re my other son and have enlightened them a little on a couple of aspects of GDPR after their pathetic attempt at complaining to the judge that I had breached their employees personal data.
    Hopefully this will be the end of the matter.
    Am I allowed to gloat? A teensy tiny gloat?
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