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  • FIRST POST
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 8th Jul 18, 8:55 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 5Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Itís got to the court stage
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:55 PM
    Itís got to the court stage 8th Jul 18 at 8:55 PM
    Hi All,
    I have spent a few days reading the various forums concerning private parking companies and tho I donít claim to have read it every single thread I think I am safe in starting a new thread. I have also read the newbies FAQ.

    Basically i have 2 situations concerning both my sons. I have slapped them on the wrist so we need to move to the next stage if possible.

    We live in a small estate that is managed. Due to issues caused by non-resident parking, the management company brought in a parking management company who issued one single parking permit per household. Each house and flat has an allocated parking spot and there are 14 additional ones where visitors can park so as not to park in the wrong place. Basically the parking companies issued so many PCNs to residents and following multiple complaints to the management company, the parking management company did not have their contract renewed so they no longer operate in the area. They were active for 13 months in the area.

    The problem is this - during the 13 months they were here, my boys were issued with several pcns which they ignored. (I appreciate they should not have done this but that is the situation). For one son, a claim is in the county court for just under £3k - and a hearing is imminent. The other son is facing a claim of just over 2k

    For the other son, a pre-court letter has arrived with an invitation to mediation or ADR.
    I have sent the statement of defence for son #1 which i can post a redacted copy if needed and for son #2 i waited TIL day 26 and sent a response claiming that the management company had given us to understand that they were protecting resident spaces from non-residents and importantly that the one parking permit issued had our address displayed and so was in breach of data protection, was unsafe and a security risk
    .
    Even the DVLA do not expect you to display your address on your vehicle.

    Beauty_in_colour
Page 2
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 11th Jul 18, 8:07 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    The claimants legal representative will have explained to the Claimant about withholding of evidence so the Defendant can only presume the Claimant is engages is wholly unreasonable and vexatious behaviour in this matter.
    Somehow I dont get the impression that the claimant has used legal representatives. She appears to have written the witness statement herself. You might notice at the end of the claimants witness statement she says she passed the defendants details onto ZZPS her legal representatives. ZZPS are not a legal firm but a debt collection agency who buy debts off people.

    Out of interest, can anyone tell me if I am within my rights to demand that the estate management company provide me with a copy of their contract with NPM? Seeing as they imposed this company on us in the first place. I wrote to them a few weeks ago but they wrote back and said it was confidential between them and their clients (ie the landowners). I thought I might try and get a copy of the agreement just to make sure it is the same as the one that NPM have (ie dates, signatures etc), when they eventually let me have a copy.
    Last edited by beauty_in_colour; 11-07-2018 at 8:12 AM.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 18, 8:40 AM
    • 2,967 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Somehow I dont get the impression that the claimant has used legal representatives. She appears to have written the witness statement herself. You might notice at the end of the claimants witness statement she says she passed the defendants details onto ZZPS her legal representatives. ZZPS are not a legal firm but a debt collection agency who buy debts off people.
    You are correct. Mixed this up with another thread. Though ZZPS have an even more colourful background than Gladstones.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 11-07-2018 at 8:43 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 11th Jul 18, 9:00 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Thank you. Would you have a view on the second paragraph? Now posted below. Kind regards

    Out of interest, can anyone tell me if I am within my rights to demand that the estate management company provide me with a copy of their contract with NPM? Seeing as they imposed this company on us in the first place. I wrote to them a few weeks ago but they wrote back and said it was confidential between them and their clients (ie the landowners). I thought I might try and get a copy of the agreement just to make sure it is the same as the one that NPM have (ie dates, signatures etc), when they eventually let me have a copy.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 18, 9:09 AM
    • 2,967 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Whether you are within your rights depends on the way that contract was formed and its purpose.

    So if it does impinge on your (or your son's) rights but they don't release it or give a false reason for not releasing it, how would you know - until you see the document they are not releasing.

    The better approach is the one outlined in LoC's letter which refers not to your son's rights as a tenant/leaseholder (? which are unknown) but his rights as a defendant
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 11-07-2018 at 9:11 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 11th Jul 18, 9:17 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    The better approach is the one outlined in LoC's letter which refers not to your son's rights as a tenant/leaseholder (? which are unknown) but his rights as a defendant
    Thank you very much. Yes this was sent yesterday so we will wait on NPMs response..
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 21st Jul 18, 9:36 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Well I sent the letter above to the PPC and received a reply, the gist of which is that
    1. The contract is the signs that are posted
    2. They will not be sending a copy of the agreement between the PPC and the landowners as the details as this has no bearing on our defence and that this agreement has already been presented to the judge

    They make reference to a Ďsimilarí case to mine which they have seen on the MSE forum. They warn against using these forums claiming they givie false information and then reference the case in Scotland where a woman was ordered by the court to pay thousands of pounds in penalties. I find this disturbing and something of a veiled threat as our cases are not in the least bit similar.

    They have stated they will not be responding to any further conmunication unless itís to come to some arrangement regarding a payment plan.
    I guess itís - see you in court then.
    The hearing is in early August.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jul 18, 9:39 PM
    • 60,025 Posts
    • 73,177 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They make reference to a 'similar' case to mine which they have seen on the MSE forum. They warn against using these forums claiming they givie false information and then reference the case in Scotland where a woman was ordered by the court to pay thousands of pounds in penalties. I find this disturbing and something of a veiled threat as our cases are not in the least bit similar.
    Just shows their level. Bottom feeders, and they withheld evidence from you.

    Don't be disturbed by harassing idiots (I wasn't when someone tried something stupid at me).

    The hearing is in early August.
    Have you now filed your own WS and evidence?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 21-07-2018 at 9:44 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 21st Jul 18, 9:41 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Well I sent the letter above to the PPC and received a reply, the gist of which is that
    1. The contract is the signs that are posted
    2. They will not be sending a copy of the agreement between the PPC and the landowners as the details as this has no bearing on our defence and that this agreement has already been presented to the judge

    They make reference to a Ďsimilarí case to mine which they have seen on the MSE forum. They warn against using these forums claiming they givie false information and then reference the case in Scotland where a woman was ordered by the court to pay thousands of pounds in penalties. I find this disturbing and something of a veiled threat as our cases are not in the least bit similar.

    They have stated they will not be responding to any further conmunication unless itís to come to some arrangement regarding a payment plan.
    I guess itís - see you in court then.
    The hearing is in early August.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 21st Jul 18, 10:14 PM
    • 8,616 Posts
    • 8,486 Thanks
    KeithP
    Why have you posted that again?

    The question was 'have you filed and served your witness statement and evidence'?

    When is you witness statement and evidence due?
    .
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 21st Jul 18, 10:23 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Hi yes the ws and evidence was posted a while back and earlier on when I started the thread. Please let me know if you need me to copy it here again. I also posted the claimants ws and evidence
    Thanks
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 21st Jul 18, 10:30 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Hi Keith, my mistake, I must have hit the back button and posted my reply 2x by mistake. The ws was submitted at the end of May and a copy was posted I earlier in this thread.
    I ve also already posted a copy of the claimants ws
    Thanks
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 21st Jul 18, 10:33 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    I should have said as mentioned ro KeithP ws on both sides have already been submitted at the end of May
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 22nd Jul 18, 6:19 AM
    • 2,967 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Just list your costs - make them detailed and put in an amount for the extra hours you've had to spend on this because of the Claimants withholding of information that they should have provided under the Civil Procedure Rules. Send it to them as a "draft" as there will be other costs to be added by the time it gets to a hearing. Get proof of posting.

    NPM will need to drop the case early if they don't want a costs order made against them so it is your decision whether to make this "a drop hands" offer i.e. both parties walk away or whether you are happy to take this all the way to help your fellow residents that may be suffering from this idiot.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 22-07-2018 at 6:21 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 22nd Jul 18, 8:07 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Thank you I will list the costs and will take some time to consider the second paragraph above.
    Kind regards
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Jul 18, 8:41 AM
    • 18,856 Posts
    • 29,669 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thank you I will list the costs and will take some time to consider the second paragraph above.
    Kind regards
    Originally posted by beauty_in_colour
    There is a draft cost schedule layout (including the types of costs you could claim) in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2. It has been drafted by Loadsofchildren123- a practising solicitor.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 23rd Jul 18, 7:59 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    There is a draft cost schedule layout (including the types of costs you could claim) in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2. It has been drafted by Loadsofchildren123- a practising solicitor.
    Thank you - I'll get that sorted.
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 5th Aug 18, 12:59 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    We are in court tomorrow morning for the hearing. I just wanted to say thank you to all who have provided us with help and advice on this matter. I will post the outcome here tomorrow.
    Many thanks once again.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Aug 18, 1:16 PM
    • 18,856 Posts
    • 29,669 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    The very best of luck.

    Yes, please do let us have feedback on the outcome (whichever way), it really does help us keep up with the way courts are thinking - and if you win, gives us all a boost and further motivation to continue the campaign.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Aug 18, 4:54 PM
    • 2,967 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    When you get there, check the listings with the usher as there may be more of you. You can help each other out. Just ask the usher to point out the other party/parties.

    Good luck and don't let the other side rattle you. Stick to the facts and if you think the other side are lying - don't say lying but tell the judge that they are mistaken and should produce evidence rather than relying on hearsay.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • beauty_in_colour
    • By beauty_in_colour 6th Aug 18, 6:41 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    beauty_in_colour
    Thank you so much for your help and yes I will seek the others out.
    Kind regards
    B_I_C
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