Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 8th Jul 18, 7:16 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    shaunnaob
    Unreasonable Landlord
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:16 PM
    Unreasonable Landlord 8th Jul 18 at 7:16 PM
    Hi Everyone!
    Almost two years ago my partner and I moved into our first flat, and while the landlord has at times seemed a little strange (he once let himself into the flat for a fire alarm check without permission as he didn't realise I was home and in bed asleep), he's always seemed quite laid back and grateful for the condition we keep the property in. Last week he came round for the environmental health inspection and has now begun to complain about everything. Let me preface this by saying the flat has clearly been decorated and maintained on a shoestring budget, I'm talking the most basic IKEA furniture you can buy. So his first complaint is the carpet in the bedroom, its an incredibly cheap beige carpet that wasn't in the best condition when we first moved in, and it really clings to dirt. We hoover as best we can but even the hoover seems to leave behind track marks in the carpet so I honestly dont know what he expects us to do. But by far the most outrageous comment was regarding damp patches on our bedroom wall, he says if they aren't gone by the time we move out he will bill us. It is noted on the tenancy agreement that there were already some marks when we moved in and I can appreciate that it is now worse, but we have a dehumidifier in the room, keep the windows open constantly in summer and use the central heating frivolously in winter, as well as keeping a specific towel to wipe condensation from the windows if necessary. The fact of the matter is the walls obviously are not well damp proofed and there is nothing we can do to help that. We don't plan on moving out for another year or so but I'm starting to worry that he's going to try and keep our deposit to replace his poor quality carpets and furniture and blame us for the damp. Any advice?
Page 1
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 8th Jul 18, 7:26 PM
    • 982 Posts
    • 1,189 Thanks
    need an answer
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:26 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:26 PM
    Do you have an inventory that shows via pictures or describes the condition of items at the point you moved in?

    If yes good.

    Use this as the base document to return the property to that standard minus fair wear and tear when you move out.

    How was the carpet documented in the inventory?

    If you end up dis agreeing with deposit deductions at the point you move out,you can challenge them with the deposit service that holds your deposit.

    Remember when you move out to take your own pictures as evidence of how you leave the property as you may need them when/if you need to counterclaim.


    For some advice on dealing with condensation google it there are plenty of tips which may help ease the condensation and prevent mould occurring.
    in S 40 T 64 F 61
    out S 58 T 67 F 74
    2017 -32
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 8th Jul 18, 7:43 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:43 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:43 PM
    Yes, we do. The carpet is listed as 'satisfactory condition' with signs of considerable wear and tear. What do you think counts as fair wear and tear? for example my chest of drawers is again obviously very old and very cheap and the drawers are only held by small pieces of plastic, one of these is broken.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 8th Jul 18, 7:52 PM
    • 982 Posts
    • 1,189 Thanks
    need an answer
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:52 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:52 PM
    any thing that is listed as satisfactory condition on a check in inventory and then goes through a further tenancy would not in my opinion warrant the LL claiming much if anything from your deposit re the carpet.


    however sometimes these things are open to individual interpretation so what I would consider satisfactory you LL may not.

    Again if the cheat of drawers was in that state when you moved in then any claim could be challenged,however if you have added to the damage whilst there,you may need to pay a portion of repair/replace costs

    The LL is not entitled to betterment but could charge something based on the condition when listed on check in and then on check out.


    photo it and challenge it if need be when the time comes
    Last edited by need an answer; 08-07-2018 at 7:57 PM.
    in S 40 T 64 F 61
    out S 58 T 67 F 74
    2017 -32
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 8th Jul 18, 8:00 PM
    • 457 Posts
    • 451 Thanks
    jonnygee2
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:00 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:00 PM
    but I'm starting to worry that he's going to try and keep our deposit to replace his poor quality carpets and furniture and blame us for the damp.
    He can't charge you for damp. In fact if it is causing disrepair (like cracks in the wallpaper etc) he is responsible for fixing this and you should tell him such. Nor for replacing the carpet. You can only be charged for actual damage you have caused. And then - he can only charge reasonable amounts (not to replace the whole carpet, for example)

    Don't stress at this point. Just keep records of the emails etc. When it comes to checking out, if everything is as you've described you can challenge it with the deposit scheme.

    And remind him of his repair responsibilities for any damage the damp on HIS walls might be causing. And if he keeps coming in, change the locks.
    • anselld
    • By anselld 8th Jul 18, 9:32 PM
    • 5,965 Posts
    • 5,703 Thanks
    anselld
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 18, 9:32 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 18, 9:32 PM
    Why is there an environmental health inspection? That is no doubt what has P'd him off.
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 8th Jul 18, 11:14 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:14 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:14 PM
    The carpet has a slight burn on from my straighteners which I take responsibility for and wouldn't mind being charged for, but the rest of the issues with it are due to the fact it was a poor quality carpet that was already on its way out two years ago
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 8th Jul 18, 11:16 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:16 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:16 PM
    any thing that is listed as satisfactory condition on a check in inventory and then goes through a further tenancy would not in my opinion warrant the LL claiming much if anything from your deposit re the carpet.


    however sometimes these things are open to individual interpretation so what I would consider satisfactory you LL may not.

    Again if the cheat of drawers was in that state when you moved in then any claim could be challenged,however if you have added to the damage whilst there,you may need to pay a portion of repair/replace costs

    The LL is not entitled to betterment but could charge something based on the condition when listed on check in and then on check out.


    photo it and challenge it if need be when the time comes
    Originally posted by need an answer
    Well this is exactly what I thought. If it was only satisfactory when we moved in I'm not sure how much longer he was expecting it to last anyway..
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 8th Jul 18, 11:18 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:18 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:18 PM
    Why is there an environmental health inspection? That is no doubt what has P'd him off.
    Originally posted by anselld
    Its a big house that he personally split into four flats.. apparently all buildings like that are being inspected due to new regulations?? At least thats what he told me
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 9th Jul 18, 1:18 AM
    • 5,704 Posts
    • 7,993 Thanks
    deannatrois
    I wonder if environmental health have noted concerns about the state of the place and he is trying to pass repair costs onto you?

    You may have a 'bad weather' facing wall on that side of the house, or a wall with insufficient insulation (I have had that problem, solved it by putting insulating wallpaper up but I wouldn't recommend this for a private tenant). It sounds like you are doing what could be done to prevent problems.

    I wonder if you can ask to see the environmental health report?

    Again, in a private rental, i was told damp in a bathroom was my fault, due to condensation in spite of best efforts to keep window open etc. I did point out it was oddly rectangular in shape, in line with roof tiles. Eventually the ceiling and roof fell in, all was repaired by LL and the 'condensation damp' never reappeared. The LL could have saved himself a fortune by repairing the roof when I started pointing out the problem rather than just blaming it on me (sneaky grin) lol.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 9th Jul 18, 7:34 AM
    • 17,026 Posts
    • 41,947 Thanks
    FBaby
    You need to separate W&T from damage. Burn marks and other marks that can't be removed are not W&T. It doesn't matter whether the carpet is not great quality, it doesn't mean that damaging them is acceptable. The damage is the reason why some LL go for the cheapest carpets. You can expect that he will dispute and even though he wouldn't be entitled to the cost of changing the carpet, and the fact that it wasn't in a new/good condition in the place means that what he will be able to claim is minimal, he will still get something for the fact that you've damaged it.

    Also, not true at all that he can't claim for damp. Damp is almost always caused by condensation. He could get professionals in just after you moved out and if they were to confirm that there is no structural issues (that he would have had to fix), damage cause by damp could be charged to you. What you need to do now is write officially to report the damp and ask for a damp report. If he refused, I would consider getting one yourself. If the cause is considered to be condensation, then you need to take steps to sort it out. If the cause is structural, then you need to show the LL the report and officially ask for the repairs to be effected.
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 9th Jul 18, 11:52 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    I wonder if environmental health have noted concerns about the state of the place and he is trying to pass repair costs onto you?

    You may have a 'bad weather' facing wall on that side of the house, or a wall with insufficient insulation (I have had that problem, solved it by putting insulating wallpaper up but I wouldn't recommend this for a private tenant). It sounds like you are doing what could be done to prevent problems.

    I wonder if you can ask to see the environmental health report?

    Again, in a private rental, i was told damp in a bathroom was my fault, due to condensation in spite of best efforts to keep window open etc. I did point out it was oddly rectangular in shape, in line with roof tiles. Eventually the ceiling and roof fell in, all was repaired by LL and the 'condensation damp' never reappeared. The LL could have saved himself a fortune by repairing the roof when I started pointing out the problem rather than just blaming it on me (sneaky grin) lol.
    Originally posted by deannatrois
    Yeah its definitely a structural issue as its only the walls facing the outside that are affected. Its definitely not well insulated as i can constantly feel a draft when its windy outside
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 9th Jul 18, 11:55 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    You need to separate W&T from damage. Burn marks and other marks that can't be removed are not W&T. It doesn't matter whether the carpet is not great quality, it doesn't mean that damaging them is acceptable. The damage is the reason why some LL go for the cheapest carpets. You can expect that he will dispute and even though he wouldn't be entitled to the cost of changing the carpet, and the fact that it wasn't in a new/good condition in the place means that what he will be able to claim is minimal, he will still get something for the fact that you've damaged it.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Yeah as I said I'm happy to take responsibility for the burn, but he hasnt even noticed that. His complaint is about the general state of the carpet. I'm more than happy to pay for any damage I personally have caused but take issue with paying for things that are simply a result of poor quality furniture/structural issues
    • InterestedParty2018
    • By InterestedParty2018 9th Jul 18, 12:12 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    InterestedParty2018
    Carpet issue aside - with regards to the condensation, I would suggest you write (documented) a letter to your landlord/Managing Agent explaining that you have concerns regarding the condensation (and subsequent mould) which is appearing despite your best efforts to control it. I would also list all the action you are taking (ie dehumidifier, ventilation etc.)

    If you are genuinely taking all precautions to avoid condensation and the problem still does exist, there may be a building defect which needs attention.

    Documenting these issues at the start and during the tenancy will put you in a better position at the end of the tenancy, should this turn out to be a nasty battle for the deposit to be returned.

    Can I ask, you mention damp patches on the bedroom wall. Is this behind curtains/wardrobe or similar?
    It is my understanding that condensation is airborne moisture (from cooking, bathing, laundry, breathing!) which attaches to cold surfaces. Windows are easy to spot and can be wiped down (or better still, windows kept open), but when moisture attaches to the wall (a porous surface), and there is no air movement (ie behind cupboards/curtains) to dry/remove the moisture, it will start becoming evident with mould spores.

    Ventilation and air moment are the answer.

    If you have random damp patches on a wall, I would ask if there is a leak perhaps which is causing it? Is it an external wall?
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 9th Jul 18, 12:33 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    Carpet issue aside - with regards to the condensation, I would suggest you write (documented) a letter to your landlord/Managing Agent explaining that you have concerns regarding the condensation (and subsequent mould) which is appearing despite your best efforts to control it. I would also list all the action you are taking (ie dehumidifier, ventilation etc.)

    If you are genuinely taking all precautions to avoid condensation and the problem still does exist, there may be a building defect which needs attention.

    Documenting these issues at the start and during the tenancy will put you in a better position at the end of the tenancy, should this turn out to be a nasty battle for the deposit to be returned.

    Can I ask, you mention damp patches on the bedroom wall. Is this behind curtains/wardrobe or similar?
    It is my understanding that condensation is airborne moisture (from cooking, bathing, laundry, breathing!) which attaches to cold surfaces. Windows are easy to spot and can be wiped down (or better still, windows kept open), but when moisture attaches to the wall (a porous surface), and there is no air movement (ie behind cupboards/curtains) to dry/remove the moisture, it will start becoming evident with mould spores.

    Ventilation and air moment are the answer.

    If you have random damp patches on a wall, I would ask if there is a leak perhaps which is causing it? Is it an external wall?
    Originally posted by InterestedParty2018
    Going to try my best to explain the layout so bear with me
    the damp patches are worst up above the windows where the wall meets the ceiling, its an old house so has high ceilings and three windows that take up almost the entirety of the outside wall. There arent any curtains, just blinds, and the wardrobe is on the opposite side of the room.

    This is where my explanation gets complicated, the room isn't just a simple 4 wall situation, there are small alcoves all around and the damp is worst in the corners of these that are nearest the windows

    hope that makes sense??
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 9th Jul 18, 1:01 PM
    • 982 Posts
    • 1,189 Thanks
    need an answer
    Upstairs room or downstairs?

    Any sign of maybe a slipped tile on the roof or some flashing come loose?

    Near a chimney where either bricks have blown or pointing missing?
    in S 40 T 64 F 61
    out S 58 T 67 F 74
    2017 -32
    • shaunnaob
    • By shaunnaob 9th Jul 18, 1:07 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shaunnaob
    Upstairs room or downstairs?

    Any sign of maybe a slipped tile on the roof or some flashing come loose?

    Near a chimney where either bricks have blown or pointing missing?
    Originally posted by need an answer
    We are the second flat of four, so there are two levels above us and one below. The chimney is in the living room so not that
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,833Posts Today

8,568Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @RickGreerUK: @MartinSLewis Someone looking so jazz up their headline. I hope they apologise! I?ve always appreciated MSE?s responsibl?

  • The Times has an upsetting article today about travel insurer TIF. Yet a sidebar piece is also more than disinge? https://t.co/KgJaTkWFOg

  • RT @kcb1: Looking forward to @MartinSLewis on the money show tonight at 8. It?s a shame it?s only 1 hour long

  • Follow Martin