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  • FIRST POST
    • kittieviolet
    • By kittieviolet 8th Jul 18, 1:21 PM
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    kittieviolet
    Ethical Investing
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 18, 1:21 PM
    Ethical Investing 8th Jul 18 at 1:21 PM
    Hi I am a total newbie to investing so please be kind. I wondered if anybody had any experience with ethical investing. Passive investing would be my choice. I have been looking at some ethically labelled funds but I am having difficulty choosing as I have never heard of some of the companies. Also my idea of ethical would be: sustainability, renewable energy companies and those with with no animal testing.
    I would be grateful for any pointers or anyone with experience in this area.
    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Jul 18, 1:49 PM
    • 95,739 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 18, 1:49 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 18, 1:49 PM
    Passive investing would be my choice.
    Whilst possible, the options are limited and not really in keeping with ethical investing. The reason for that is that everyone has their own ethical stance. So, all ethical funds are set on a criteria that means they exclude certain things. Or must include certain things or are indifferent.

    Finding a passive that matches your particular ethical profile will be luck rather than expectation.

    Also my idea of ethical would be: sustainability, renewable energy companies and those with with no animal testing.
    Are those must-haves or nice to have? So, no problems with tobacco then?

    Look at an ethical profile list and then complete it deciding your stance. Then filter the funds based on that criteria.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Filo25
    • By Filo25 8th Jul 18, 2:14 PM
    • 1,714 Posts
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    Filo25
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 18, 2:14 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 18, 2:14 PM
    Whilst possible, the options are limited and not really in keeping with ethical investing. The reason for that is that everyone has their own ethical stance. So, all ethical funds are set on a criteria that means they exclude certain things. Or must include certain things or are indifferent.

    Finding a passive that matches your particular ethical profile will be luck rather than expectation.



    Are those must-haves or nice to have? So, no problems with tobacco then?

    Look at an ethical profile list and then complete it deciding your stance. Then filter the funds based on that criteria.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    That is the main issue with ethical investment, as you say, many people have different ideas of investments which should be included or excluded from such a fund.

    My wife for instance would prefer not to invest in tobacco companies or fossil fuels, as that is only quite a narrow list of exclusions some concentrated mainstream funds which aren't even listed as ethical would basically be fine.
    • firestone
    • By firestone 8th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    • 283 Posts
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    firestone
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    would agree with others that one persons idea of ethical may not be others as i did see somebody complain on another forum last year that their sustainable fund had a Amazon holding and they did not agree as they did not like some of the books,films and other products they carried!
    Having said that if you search i.e ethical or esg investing you should get some ideas i know the Royal London sustainable range that they took over from the Co-Op get good reviews so others may have some views if holding.I have had good results with Impax Environmental Markets IT which may fit with your renewables/water/waste etc and there is also Greencoat UK Wind IT but they are all managed funds
    • kittieviolet
    • By kittieviolet 8th Jul 18, 4:01 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    kittieviolet
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 18, 4:01 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 18, 4:01 PM
    Thank you so much for your replies. You have echoed what I was finding. Products were being labelled as ethical but on searching further the were not as substantial as I would have liked. I guess its up to personal opinion what is acceptable. I also wouldn't want to invest in tobacco or armaments.
    Thanks again for taking the time to reply and the suggestions, I will look further in to Royal London, Impax and Greencoat
    • TBC15
    • By TBC15 8th Jul 18, 5:41 PM
    • 620 Posts
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    TBC15
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 18, 5:41 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 18, 5:41 PM
    Fundsmith went ethical recently I believe. Must admit I had the same feelings when Dillon went acoustic. But the man has a nose for money.
    • grey gym sock
    • By grey gym sock 8th Jul 18, 6:25 PM
    • 4,444 Posts
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    grey gym sock
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 6:25 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 6:25 PM
    fundsmith launched a "sustainable" fund, though i think it's only available to institutional investors. there's no change in the investment policy of his existing funds.

    it's worth noting the difference between ethical/sustainable funds which are going for a broadly diversified portfolio, and more niche/specialist funds.

    the former might be suitable to put a large part of your portfolio in, providing their idea of what's ethical is close enough to your own and that you think they're competent as investors. (the royal london sustainable range are probably in this category.)

    the more niche funds would only be suitable for a small percentage of a portfolio. e.g. greencoat would be in this category, wind energy being a pretty narrow sector.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 8th Jul 18, 7:49 PM
    • 2,423 Posts
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    bostonerimus
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:49 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 7:49 PM
    I gave up on "ethical Investing" a long time ago as I figured capitalism and ethics are not well correlated. So I try to be ethical in my daily life and do good things for the planet and people; I ride my bike rather than drive my car as often as I can, I keep my heating low in the winter, I give to local and national charities and I vote for politicians that I think will improve things.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 8th Jul 18, 8:07 PM
    • 702 Posts
    • 560 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:07 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:07 PM
    I gave up on "ethical Investing" a long time ago as I figured capitalism and ethics are not well correlated. So I try to be ethical in my daily life and do good things for the planet and people; I ride my bike rather than drive my car as often as I can, I keep my heating low in the winter, I give to local and national charities and I vote for politicians that I think will improve things.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    Good man! (or woman). Have you come across some interesting research that says we should drive more and cycle/walk less? Apparently, more vigorous physical activity produces more CO2 (exhaled breath) per mile than a modern car does. All these cyclists/runners/athletes are just spoiling the planet for us innocent motorists!
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 8th Jul 18, 8:53 PM
    • 11,407 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    Good man! (or woman). Have you come across some interesting research that says we should drive more and cycle/walk less? Apparently, more vigorous physical activity produces more CO2 (exhaled breath) per mile than a modern car does. All these cyclists/runners/athletes are just spoiling the planet for us innocent motorists!
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    That would seem to be a misleading statistic (as are 72% of all statistics )

    The CO2 exhaled by a person would be generally carbon neutral since it's recycled carbon ultimately derived from the atmosphere* whereas that froma car would overall add to the CO2 in the atmosphere as you are releasing carbon that was previously locked up in an oil,deposit.

    Plus, when a fossil fuelled car drives past you it's also emitting toxic fumes which are more of an immediate danger, that a runner or cyclist won't (unless they've been eating a lot of cabbage or beans)

    * there will be a contribution from the fossil,fuels used to grow and transport the food. Good luck working out what's what.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 08-07-2018 at 8:56 PM.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 8th Jul 18, 9:04 PM
    • 702 Posts
    • 560 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    That would seem to be a misleading statistic (as are 72% of all statistics )

    The CO2 exhaled by a person would be generally carbon neutral since it's recycled carbon ultimately derived from the atmosphere* whereas that froma car would overall add to the CO2 in the atmosphere as you are releasing carbon that was previously locked up in an oil,deposit.

    Plus, when a fossil fuelled car drives past you it's also emitting toxic fumes which are more of an immediate danger, that a runner or cyclist won't (unless they've been eating a lot of cabbage or beans)

    * there will be a contribution from the fossil,fuels used to grow and transport the food. Good luck working out what's what.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe

    You are completely 100% wrong. It is way more than 72% of stats that are misleading.

    I give no credence to the research that made the suggestions but it seems we need to stop eating carbon-based food, driving, breathing, reproducing, farting whilst running - and - cycling!
    • firestone
    • By firestone 8th Jul 18, 10:17 PM
    • 283 Posts
    • 129 Thanks
    firestone
    I gave up on "ethical Investing" a long time ago as I figured capitalism and ethics are not well correlated. So I try to be ethical in my daily life and do good things for the planet and people; I ride my bike rather than drive my car as often as I can, I keep my heating low in the winter, I give to local and national charities and I vote for politicians that I think will improve things.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    have noticed the concern of hot air from your cycling but not for the hot air from the politicians so think your ok
    • kittieviolet
    • By kittieviolet 9th Jul 18, 7:10 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    kittieviolet
    I gave up on "ethical Investing" a long time ago as I figured capitalism and ethics are not well correlated. So I try to be ethical in my daily life and do good things for the planet and people; I ride my bike rather than drive my car as often as I can, I keep my heating low in the winter, I give to local and national charities and I vote for politicians that I think will improve things.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    I think that you have summed up my original dilemma in your first sentence very well. I am going to do some more research and have another think. Thanks for your replies
    Last edited by kittieviolet; 09-07-2018 at 7:22 AM. Reason: more content added
    • rich06
    • By rich06 9th Jul 18, 10:44 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    rich06
    I think that you have summed up my original dilemma in your first sentence very well. I am going to do some more research and have another think. Thanks for your replies
    Originally posted by kittieviolet
    Have you looked at Abundance Investment? They offer investment in Green Energy Projects - I can't post any links so you need to re-work this a bit ... [three w's] [dot] abundanceinvestment [dot] com

    HTH
    Rich
    • firestone
    • By firestone 9th Jul 18, 1:25 PM
    • 283 Posts
    • 129 Thanks
    firestone
    Have you looked at Abundance Investment? They offer investment in Green Energy Projects - I can't post any links so you need to re-work this a bit ... [three w's] [dot] abundanceinvestment [dot] com

    HTH
    Rich
    Originally posted by rich06
    If you like that sort of product you may want to look at Triodos Bank who as well as having ethical funds also now offer P2P type bonds like Abundance as well as savings/current accounts
    • kittieviolet
    • By kittieviolet 9th Jul 18, 3:33 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    kittieviolet
    Thank you all for your wonderful advice its very much appreciated.
    I have come across Legal and Generals Ethical Trust. It is a passive fund and its exclusion criteria is :

    Animal testing
    Military !!!8211; nature of involvement
    Gambling
    Non-sustainable Timber
    Health & safety convictions
    Nuclear power
    Countries with poor human rights records
    Ozone depleting chemicals
    Pornography
    Intensive farming
    Tobacco
    Investment Trusts
    Water pollution
    Independent monitoring of companies is carried out by Ethical
    Investment Research Services (!!!8220;EIRIS!!!8221 based on the criteria
    above'
    The companies are from the FTSE 350

    Its ongoing charge is 0.96 which isn't the cheapest I've seen. I wondered if anyone has had any dealings with Legal and General investments.
    Thanks again for your time
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 9th Jul 18, 4:12 PM
    • 4,812 Posts
    • 6,325 Thanks
    ColdIron
    The OCF for this fund is 0.31% so I am guessing this may be direct with L&G. HL would only be 0.76% (0.31% + 0.45%), you could get this down to 0.56% with the 0.25% providers or even less with someone like iWeb if they provide it but it will depend on the sums involved as there would be transaction fees. The problem with it is that you would have all your eggs in one basket by restricting yourself to just the UK, I'd want a lot more global exposure than that
    • firestone
    • By firestone 9th Jul 18, 4:24 PM
    • 283 Posts
    • 129 Thanks
    firestone
    from a quick look HL have a class R @ .19% as well & it's also nearly all UK.This may go back to one persons ethical as mentioned early in the thread as this fund ticks all the boxes you want by looking at your list but still ends up with the usual big names i.e National Grid,Lloyds Bank so will be safer and probably have good results.
    But as for the things like renewable energy or recycling plastic something like the Impax Environmental fund i mentioned would be riskier but possibly have a more social outlook (and i am not trying to sell it as there may be others)
    • kittieviolet
    • By kittieviolet 9th Jul 18, 4:39 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    kittieviolet
    Thanks so much again. Interestingly I have looked in to the animal testing branch of this fund and it only excludes companies that do test cosmetics on animals for the last 5 years. The fund does include a bio-pharmaceutical company which does animal test which is very disappointing
    This is quite a minefield.
    • firestone
    • By firestone 9th Jul 18, 6:11 PM
    • 283 Posts
    • 129 Thanks
    firestone
    Thanks so much again. Interestingly I have looked in to the animal testing branch of this fund and it only excludes companies that do test cosmetics on animals for the last 5 years. The fund does include a bio-pharmaceutical company which does animal test which is very disappointing
    This is quite a minefield.
    Originally posted by kittieviolet
    A mind field is probably true as there could be more things if you dig deep i.e i have not checked but can you be sure who the banks in the fund lend to are really in line with your views or that the National Grid is green enough.But If you do go with the L&G fund check for the cheapest platform first
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