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  • FIRST POST
    • benanderson89
    • By benanderson89 7th Jul 18, 3:36 PM
    • 4Posts
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    benanderson89
    My finance quote looks suspect
    • #1
    • 7th Jul 18, 3:36 PM
    My finance quote looks suspect 7th Jul 18 at 3:36 PM
    Hi everyone!
    I'm looking at an ex-demonstrator Kia Stinger GTS. It's only 32,995 from my local dealership which should make it easily affordable for me. That's a whopping 8,185 below list for a car with only 1800 miles on it.

    However, it looks like the dealership are taking me for a ride because the monthly figure they came back with is shockingly high.

    On a 32,995 car with a 4000 deposit and an extra 784.18 equity in my old car, I was quoted 501.59 per calendar month (551 originally with a 3k deposit and 700 worth of paint protection and "jencare", whatever that is). To put that into perspective, a new Kia Stinger GTS with a 8,185 deposit to match the ex-demo discount is 526.24 according to the Kia website.

    To break-down the figures they've given me:
    • Vehicle Price: 32,995.00
    • Add Road Tax: 450.00
    • Equity: 784.18
    • Deposit: 4,000.00
    • Final Value: 15,376.50
    • 36 months

    That's a loan amount of 13,284.32. Surely it shouldn't be over 500 a month! Have they pushed in some cheeky extras without telling me? I've not signed anything (thus I've not received a complete breakdown of costs), but these figures seem suspect. If I build a new Stinger GTS and put down a deposit of 12,185 (deposit + difference from the used car) I end up with a monthly figure of around 450. Where did the extra 50 to 100 come from?

    Have I messed something up in my calculations or is there something sneaky going on? Is there a car dealer on these forums willing to give me a layman's explanation as to why its so expensive?

    Thank You!
    Last edited by benanderson89; 07-07-2018 at 4:07 PM.
Page 1
    • facade
    • By facade 7th Jul 18, 4:07 PM
    • 3,544 Posts
    • 1,862 Thanks
    facade
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:07 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:07 PM
    The interest rate is very high. It usually is on second hand cars.


    You will be paying 38,217.92 for the car (less road tax)


    As you say a new one is 40,000, there will be a manufacturers contribution of a couple of thousand to take the PCP, and the finance will be zero % or close to it, so a new one is near enough the same price.


    PCP is not the way to get a second hand car, you want to be paying cash for it, with a low % loan from somewhere to get it for close to the 33K.


    You wonder how they sell nearly new cars tbh....
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • benanderson89
    • By benanderson89 7th Jul 18, 4:14 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    benanderson89
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:14 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:14 PM
    Thank you! They never did tell me the interest rate and it was silly of me to assume it would be the same as a new car (which is 4.9%).

    With that in mind, is getting a bank loan for the 13,284.32 and leaving the final value floating a good idea? I know some brands will let you pay a lump-sum up front. I think its called an advanced rental?
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 7th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    • 17,873 Posts
    • 10,900 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    Hi everyone!
    I'm looking at an ex-demonstrator Kia Stinger GTS. It's only 32,995 from my local dealership which should make it easily affordable for me. That's a whopping 8,185 below list for a car with only 1800 miles on it.

    However, it looks like the dealership are taking me for a ride because the monthly figure they came back with is shockingly high.

    On a 32,995 car with a 4000 deposit and an extra 784.18 equity in my old car, I was quoted 501.59 per calendar month (551 originally with a 3k deposit and 700 worth of paint protection and "jencare", whatever that is). To put that into perspective, a new Kia Stinger GTS with a 8,185 deposit to match the ex-demo discount is 526.24 according to the Kia website.

    To break-down the figures they've given me:
    • Vehicle Price: 32,995.00
    • Add Road Tax: 450.00
    • Equity: 784.18
    • Deposit: 4,000.00
    • Final Value: 15,376.50
    • 36 months

    That's a loan amount of 13,284.32. Surely it shouldn't be over 500 a month! Have they pushed in some cheeky extras without telling me? I've not signed anything (thus I've not received a complete breakdown of costs), but these figures seem suspect. If I build a new Stinger GTS and put down a deposit of 12,185 (deposit + difference from the used car) I end up with a monthly figure of around 450. Where did the extra 50 to 100 come from?

    Have I messed something up in my calculations or is there something sneaky going on? Is there a car dealer on these forums willing to give me a layman's explanation as to why its so expensive?

    Thank You!
    Originally posted by benanderson89
    As has been said, your issues are :-
    • The APR is likely to be scandalously high on a used car on a PCP deal
    • You do actually pay interest on the residual value.

    There are other factors you need to bear in mind :-
    • The residual value will be lower when you buy a used car than if you buy a new car (any chance its late 2017 reg?)
    • New car PCP deals are often incentivised with low APR rates and deposit contributions

    What you're falling foul of with the KIA Stinger is that although the headline list price compares favourably with say a new BMW 440i M Sport, KIA dont do much in the way of discounts, so a 440i M Sport may list at 43K, discounted it can be bought for 33,290 from a broker.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 7th Jul 18, 4:33 PM
    • 17,873 Posts
    • 10,900 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:33 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:33 PM
    Thank you! They never did tell me the interest rate and it was silly of me to assume it would be the same as a new car (which is 4.9%).

    With that in mind, is getting a bank loan for the 13,284.32 and leaving the final value floating a good idea? I know some brands will let you pay a lump-sum up front. I think its called an advanced rental?
    Originally posted by benanderson89
    No i dont think you can do that.

    You'd need to either
    (a) get a bank loan for the full amount funded over a longer time but at a much lower APR
    (b) Price a new car out as i dont think it will be much more expensive with the same deposit.

    500-550 a month will PCP you an awful lot of new car for a lot of manufacturers
    Last edited by motorguy; 07-07-2018 at 4:41 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 7th Jul 18, 4:47 PM
    • 17,873 Posts
    • 10,900 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:47 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 18, 4:47 PM
    Hi everyone!
    I'm looking at an ex-demonstrator Kia Stinger GTS. It's only 32,995 from my local dealership which should make it easily affordable for me. That's a whopping 8,185 below list for a car with only 1800 miles on it.
    Originally posted by benanderson89
    With respect, i think thats a 2017 car, so its not comparing apples with apples.

    Also, you can buy a 2017 340i or 440i from around 25K from a BMW main dealer. Whilst you may not want a BMW its a rival (and arguably better car) than the KIA and an awful lot cheaper.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 7th Jul 18, 5:12 PM
    • 19,101 Posts
    • 17,509 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 18, 5:12 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 18, 5:12 PM
    However, it looks like the dealership are taking me for a ride because the monthly figure they came back with is shockingly high.

    On a 32,995 car with a 4000 deposit and an extra 784.18 equity in my old car, I was quoted 501.59 per calendar month (551 originally with a 3k deposit and 700 worth of paint protection and "jencare", whatever that is). To put that into perspective, a new Kia Stinger GTS with a 8,185 deposit to match the ex-demo discount is 526.24 according to the Kia website.
    Originally posted by benanderson89
    So the new one works out about 5k more over the term of the finance than the used one.


    To break-down the figures they've given me:
    • Vehicle Price: 32,995.00
    • Add Road Tax: 450.00
    • Equity: 784.18
    • Deposit: 4,000.00
    • Final Value: 15,376.50
    • 36 months
    That's a loan amount of 13,284.32.
    No, it is not... You are borrowing ~28.5k.


    You're then repaying ~18k over the course of the 3yrs, then ~15.5k at the end. You are paying interest on the ~15.5k for the entire term, because you've borrowed that money for the entire term. The other ~13k that you borrow is reducing over the term, with interest payable on the amount of it that's left. The ~5k difference between ~13k borrowed and ~18k repaid is the interest on the entire ~29k.



    Surely it shouldn't be over 500 a month!
    Playing with a PCP calculator suggests an APR of about 7% for that monthly repayment.
    • facade
    • By facade 7th Jul 18, 5:30 PM
    • 3,544 Posts
    • 1,862 Thanks
    facade
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 18, 5:30 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 18, 5:30 PM
    Looked at another way, assuming that you send it back after 3 years, you will be paying 4784.18 + 36x501.59 = 22,841.42 to hire a second hand car for 3 years.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • david a
    • By david a 7th Jul 18, 8:42 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    david a
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 18, 8:42 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 18, 8:42 PM
    What!!!8217;s that going to be worth in 3 years!!!
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 7th Jul 18, 10:15 PM
    • 19,101 Posts
    • 17,509 Thanks
    AdrianC
    What's that going to be worth in 3 years!!!
    Originally posted by david a
    15,375 is Kia's best guess.


    62% depreciation.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 7th Jul 18, 10:56 PM
    • 17,873 Posts
    • 10,900 Thanks
    motorguy
    15,375 is Kia's best guess.


    62% depreciation.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Slightly over the 50% every three years rule of thumb.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Jul 18, 8:45 AM
    • 19,101 Posts
    • 17,509 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Slightly over the 50% every three years rule of thumb.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    24% worse.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 8th Jul 18, 9:21 AM
    • 3,523 Posts
    • 2,162 Thanks
    Car 54
    15,375 is Kia's best guess.


    62% depreciation.
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    Any guesses from someone independent of Kia?
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 8th Jul 18, 9:28 AM
    • 7,729 Posts
    • 6,295 Thanks
    daveyjp
    Looks like one to buy at 3 years. Chances are they won't be bought by anyone doing mega miles.

    Less than 40,000 after 3 years, 4 years warranty left and all for less than 17k.

    OP keep your money and bide your time!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 8th Jul 18, 12:02 PM
    • 17,873 Posts
    • 10,900 Thanks
    motorguy
    24% worse.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    The general rule is from any given point a car depreciates roughly 50% every three years. The car is a year old now and bought for 32,995, you would expect to get back 16,500 ish in 3 years on average.
    Last edited by motorguy; 08-07-2018 at 12:20 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 8th Jul 18, 12:03 PM
    • 17,873 Posts
    • 10,900 Thanks
    motorguy
    Looks like one to buy at 3 years. Chances are they won't be bought by anyone doing mega miles.

    Less than 40,000 after 3 years, 4 years warranty left and all for less than 17k.

    OP keep your money and bide your time!
    Originally posted by daveyjp
    The car the O/P is looking at is 2017 registered therefore it'll be coming 4 years old with that residual of 16K ish suggesting a retail price of 20-21K.

    I think there will be that few sold that prices will remain reasonably strong. From KIAs website they've a residual of 18.5K on a 3 year deal, which probably means a 3 year old one with retail at around 23,995.
    Last edited by motorguy; 08-07-2018 at 12:27 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 8th Jul 18, 1:01 PM
    • 3,523 Posts
    • 2,162 Thanks
    Car 54
    Looks like one to buy at 3 years. Chances are they won't be bought by anyone doing mega miles.

    Less than 40,000 after 3 years, 4 years warranty left and all for less than 17k.

    OP keep your money and bide your time!
    Originally posted by daveyjp

    In three years' time the OP will be older, and possibly wiser. Will he still want a Kia Stinger?
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