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  • FIRST POST
    • BillyBills
    • By BillyBills 6th Jul 18, 10:08 AM
    • 25Posts
    • 26Thanks
    BillyBills
    Do banking apps help?
    • #1
    • 6th Jul 18, 10:08 AM
    Do banking apps help? 6th Jul 18 at 10:08 AM
    Hi guys,

    I've recently opened a starling bank account and started to use the app to see my expenses. I was always a classic bank statements by post kind of guy, so it's quite odd to have all my outgoings in real time on my phone. It groups everything too, so I can see where I spend on "shopping" etc. Does this kind of stuff help people or just make them more stressed and on edge about what and where they're spending!
Page 2
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 7th Jul 18, 11:48 PM
    • 2,536 Posts
    • 2,518 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    You made unsubstantiated insinuations about me.

    Granted: I apologise for the thoughtless, off-the-cuff remark.
    Originally posted by Sapphire
    Thank you.

    I haven't promoted the facility, and if you'd care to actually read my posts, then you'd see that I have said that the service is largely pointless.

    Yes, you have.
    Originally posted by Sapphire
    No, I really haven't. Please identify where in my posts I have promoted this. (N.B. You'll find this difficult because I haven't).

    I have corrected flaws in your thinking.

    Please don't try to correct 'flaws' in anyone's 'thinking' (sounds like mind control).
    Originally posted by Sapphire
    No it doesn't. Correcting logical flaws in thinking is how people learn.

    Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions, will you.

    A tad agressive, what? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about 'facts', however much others may disagree with it.
    Originally posted by Sapphire
    No, you are not entitled to your own facts. Facts are indisputable.

    This kind of wooly thinking is at the heart of all that is wrong with modern discourse.
    Last edited by ValiantSon; 08-07-2018 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Typo
    • Sapphire
    • By Sapphire 8th Jul 18, 11:59 AM
    • 2,336 Posts
    • 4,427 Thanks
    Sapphire
    No, I really haven't. Please identify where in my posts I have promoted this. (N.B. You'll find this difficult because I haven't).

    I actually meant that you have not promoted this, so was agreeing with you.

    No it doesn't. Correcting logical flaws in thinking is how people learn.

    It's not your business to try and 'correct' what you perceive to be 'flaws' in the thinking of others, though of course you are perfectly entitled to argue points logically, something you appear to be utterly unable to do without resorting to defensiveness, false accusations and sneering.

    No, you are not entitled to your own facts. Facts are indisputable.

    That is not what I said. Please do not twist people's words. I said that everyone was entitled to their own opinion about 'facts'.

    This kind of wooly thinking is at the heart of all that is wrong with modern discourse.

    Nonsense. (And it is 'woolly', as in the extinct species Woolly Mammoth, not 'wooly'.)

    Engaging with you is unpleasant due to the tone of your responses (and lack of ability to discuss opinions you disagree with). It is therefore best if we part company here.
    Last edited by Sapphire; 08-07-2018 at 12:08 PM.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 8th Jul 18, 12:33 PM
    • 2,536 Posts
    • 2,518 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    No, I really haven't. Please identify where in my posts I have promoted this. (N.B. You'll find this difficult because I haven't).

    I actually meant that you have not promoted this, so was agreeing with you.

    No it doesn't. Correcting logical flaws in thinking is how people learn.

    It's not your business to try and 'correct' what you perceive to be 'flaws' in the thinking of others, though of course you are perfectly entitled to argue points logically, something you appear to be utterly unable to do without resorting to defensiveness, false accusations and sneering.

    No, you are not entitled to your own facts. Facts are indisputable.

    That is not what I said. Please do not twist people's words. I said that everyone was entitled to their own opinion about 'facts'.

    This kind of wooly thinking is at the heart of all that is wrong with modern discourse.

    Nonsense. (And it is 'woolly', as in the extinct species Woolly Mammoth, not 'wooly'.)

    Engaging with you is unpleasant due to the tone of your responses (and lack of ability to discuss opinions you disagree with). It is therefore best if we part company here.
    Originally posted by Sapphire
    Whatever.

    You can't handle being wrong. If you don't want to face being corrected then either make sure that you are right, or don't post.

    Please accept my most humble apologies for a typing error!
    • Westie983
    • By Westie983 8th Jul 18, 1:42 PM
    • 4,608 Posts
    • 15,143 Thanks
    Westie983
    Please could we refrain from tit for tat arguments please.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and interpretation of 'facts' please let this be the end of this matter and we can move on from this.

    Westie983
    Save 12k in 2019 #10 Total (£16000)+£0/£12000 = 0.0%
    Sealed Pot Challenge ~ 12 #97 Total (£450)+£1/£500 = 0.20% ( x 11)
    Xmas 2018 £1 a Day #2 Total (£165)+£0/£365 = 0.00%
    Virtual Sealed Pot #1 Total (£1300)+£0/£1000 = 0.00%
    £2 Savers Club 2018 #16 Total (£1030)+£0/£2000 = 0.0%

    Total £1.00/£15865 = 2.00%
    I'm a Board Guide on Budgeting & Bank Accounts, Debt-Free Wannabe, Disability Money Matters, and Savings & Investments. I'm a volunteer helping the boards run smoothly, but I'm not a moderator, and do not read all posts. If you see an inappropriate/illegal post then email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 13th Jul 18, 12:48 AM
    • 232 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    Ergates
    "Shopping" is a pretty large and diverse category. How useful is it to know that you spent £XXX on "shopping", which could easily have included, food, toiletries, alcohol, books, furniture, clothes..... It may be more useful if they could break it down into all of these categories, and then you may be able to identify that you are spending way too much on alcohol, or clothes, but as it is, it is just a gimmick, and of no real value in burrowing down into your spending. There are various pieces of software that will do this for you, if you enter the data, including a simple spreadsheet.
    Originally posted by ValiantSon
    The whole "groceries" categorisation is a real and, largely, intractable problem. However, this does't render the whole exercise useless as it still works fairly well outside of supermarkets. People still find it useful to know how much they're spending in coffee-shops, or pubs or on gambling etc.
    • Ergates
    • By Ergates 13th Jul 18, 12:57 AM
    • 232 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    Ergates
    One of my main issues was that a financial institution suddenly provided this analysis of my spending without asking permission to do so. I consider my spending to be a private affair, not one that I wish a bank to analyse.
    Originally posted by Sapphire
    They don't need your separate permission to do this as it's just a part of them processing your transactions. You have given the bank permission to process your transactions by the very act of opening an account with them and using it. Providing you with the labels attached to the various merchant category codes for the transactions that they were already processing for you (because you asked them to) isn't some kind of witchcraft, it's just providing you with some additional information that they already had. If you're not interested in that additional information then don't use it.

    If you don't want your bank to know where you're spending your money, use cash, because they *have* to know where you're spending it if you use debit cards in order to service your transactions (which you asked them to do).

    Why would a bank provide such a facility to customers? How is it in its interests?
    To try to attract customers with what they think is a useful feature.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 13th Jul 18, 6:37 AM
    • 33,476 Posts
    • 20,229 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Hi guys,

    I've recently opened a starling bank account and started to use the app to see my expenses. I was always a classic bank statements by post kind of guy, so it's quite odd to have all my outgoings in real time on my phone. It groups everything too, so I can see where I spend on "shopping" etc. Does this kind of stuff help people or just make them more stressed and on edge about what and where they're spending!
    Originally posted by BillyBills
    It will be great for people that don't budget and just spend till their money runs out.

    if you budget properly you know what "will" be in the account in the future anyway so won't need the running commentary.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 13th Jul 18, 11:22 AM
    • 2,536 Posts
    • 2,518 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    The whole "groceries" categorisation is a real and, largely, intractable problem. However, this does't render the whole exercise useless as it still works fairly well outside of supermarkets. People still find it useful to know how much they're spending in coffee-shops, or pubs or on gambling etc.
    Originally posted by Ergates
    That's fine, but my point was that it is a blunt tool, and that anyone who is serious about tracking their spending can do so more effectively with a spreadsheet and a modicum of effort.
    • ozaz
    • By ozaz 13th Jul 18, 4:58 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    ozaz
    Hi guys,
    I've recently opened a starling bank account and started to use the app to see my expenses. I was always a classic bank statements by post kind of guy, so it's quite odd to have all my outgoings in real time on my phone. It groups everything too, so I can see where I spend on "shopping" etc. Does this kind of stuff help people or just make them more stressed and on edge about what and where they're spending!
    Originally posted by BillyBills
    I find the instant notifications and real-time transaction history to be useful, yes. I don't really make any use the categorization features but not sure why these things would make anyone stressed. I wouldn't want to go back to the standard way.

    Not only Starling, but all the fintech apps, Monzo, Revolut, Loot, N26 etc, give instant notification of any transaction, usually with the location, globally. (Tandem is also giving such notifications, but not reliably in my experience.) I find this helpful, to be able to check that everything is correct before leaving the location, and to be confident that if there's ever any fraud on my account I will know immediately.
    Originally posted by eDicky
    I feel the same. I used to loathe checking my statement at the end of every month. With instant transaction history and notifications I now effectively check on the go and have no concerns about fraudulent transactions as I'd be able to notice it immediately.

    The whole "groceries" categorisation is a real and, largely, intractable problem. However, this does't render the whole exercise useless as it still works fairly well outside of supermarkets. People still find it useful to know how much they're spending in coffee-shops, or pubs or on gambling etc.
    Originally posted by Ergates
    If digital receipts could be pushed to your bank account, highly granular categorization would be possible. There is at least one startup trying to facilitate such a thing, although only in a small way so far: https://www.tryflux.com/
    Last edited by ozaz; 13-07-2018 at 5:02 PM.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 13th Jul 18, 10:25 PM
    • 7,913 Posts
    • 21,358 Thanks
    EachPenny
    I feel the same. I used to loathe checking my statement at the end of every month. With instant transaction history and notifications I now effectively check on the go and have no concerns about fraudulent transactions as I'd be able to notice it immediately.
    Originally posted by ozaz
    But only if you receive a notification of the transaction. If someone has the capability to make a fraudulent transaction and supress the notification (if they can't already it is only a matter of time until they can) then you are reliant on spotting something in the transaction history which I'd suggest could be manipulated to allow the fraudulent transaction to slip through - or at least for long enough to ensure the money had vanished.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • ozaz
    • By ozaz 14th Jul 18, 10:53 AM
    • 185 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    ozaz
    But only if you receive a notification of the transaction. If someone has the capability to make a fraudulent transaction and supress the notification (if they can't already it is only a matter of time until they can) then you are reliant on spotting something in the transaction history which I'd suggest could be manipulated to allow the fraudulent transaction to slip through - or at least for long enough to ensure the money had vanished.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    My point is having notifications and real-time transaction history make you less vulnerable to fraudulent activity. It's not that it makes you immune.

    I suppose suppressing the notification is feasible as it could probably be done at the phone level and phones are vulnerable to hacking/manipulation. However, I'm confident in the security of my phone. But even if notifications were somehow suppressed, I open the app at least once a day and glance at my recent transactions so I'd spot any odd transactions within 24 hours.

    Not sure how you suspect the transaction history could be manipulated. It seems to me something like this would require high level hacking of a banks IT systems. Furthermore, if someone capable wanted to commit such a sophisticated crime, I'd bet they'd be more likely to go after a traditional bank than a bank with real time transaction history as the manipulation would be spotted less quickly at a traditional bank (it would probably take customers at traditional banks longer to query why their balance and transaction histories didn't seem to be in sync).
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