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    • sky_rat
    • By sky_rat 6th Jul 18, 9:40 AM
    • 171Posts
    • 32Thanks
    sky_rat
    Paypal buyer protection - buying an item from abroad (sport parachute) advertised on Facebook
    • #1
    • 6th Jul 18, 9:40 AM
    Paypal buyer protection - buying an item from abroad (sport parachute) advertised on Facebook 6th Jul 18 at 9:40 AM
    I have a personal UK paypal account - I would like to know what protection paypal provides if I purchase a used item (sport parachute) that someone has advertised on a Facebook sales group (private sale).

    The item is based in Cagliari (Sardinia) and priced at 1500 EUROS.

    I don't know the seller and the item costs a lot of money, so I would like to know what protection paypal provides if the item doesn't turn up, or not as described, or damaged etc.
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 6th Jul 18, 9:58 AM
    • 21,148 Posts
    • 16,976 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 18, 9:58 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 18, 9:58 AM
    Of all the things I wouldn't buy second hand and sight unseen a parachute is pretty near the top of the list!
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 6th Jul 18, 10:11 AM
    • 3,528 Posts
    • 5,220 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 18, 10:11 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 18, 10:11 AM
    Bit too late for any claim after you've jumped and found out its faulty.
    • sky_rat
    • By sky_rat 6th Jul 18, 10:16 AM
    • 171 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    sky_rat
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 18, 10:16 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 18, 10:16 AM
    Bit too late for any claim after you've jumped and found out its faulty.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Thats not the issue - it would be inspected and fitted by a professional rigger before I jump it... and I also have a reserve parachute !

    My concern is financial loss if the item doesn't arrive, or isn't as described or faulty etc
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 6th Jul 18, 10:39 AM
    • 12,690 Posts
    • 8,586 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #5
    • 6th Jul 18, 10:39 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Jul 18, 10:39 AM
    Thats not the issue - it would be inspected and fitted by a professional rigger before I jump it... and I also have a reserve parachute !

    My concern is financial loss if the item doesn't arrive, or isn't as described or faulty etc
    Originally posted by sky_rat
    If the buyer claims it doesn't arrive and the seller cannot give online tracking showing delivery then the funds are protected for the buyer.

    If it isn't as described or is faulty, the buyer has to send the item back to the seller with an online trackable method of delivery. That will be expensive.

    https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_GB Section 13 for buyer protection.

    These are not consumer rights but protection from paypal.
    • bris
    • By bris 6th Jul 18, 12:22 PM
    • 7,953 Posts
    • 6,957 Thanks
    bris
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 18, 12:22 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 18, 12:22 PM
    For 1500 Paypal will refuse your claim if they can't get it back from the seller. In theory they are good in practice they don't like paying out of their own pockets.


    They are likely to put a hold on the seller withdrawn that high a value though so it should be stuck in their account for a while to see if anything happens.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 6th Jul 18, 12:41 PM
    • 12,690 Posts
    • 8,586 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 18, 12:41 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 18, 12:41 PM
    For 1500 Paypal will refuse your claim if they can't get it back from the seller. In theory they are good in practice they don't like paying out of their own pockets.


    They are likely to put a hold on the seller withdrawn that high a value though so it should be stuck in their account for a while to see if anything happens.
    Originally posted by bris
    Paypal don't refuse a claim because there is no money in the sellers account - if that is what you are suggesting. Paypal protection is irrespective of funds in any account.

    Paypal protection is for 180 days after purchase, if they relied on funds being held sellers would have cash flow problems!
    • soolin
    • By soolin 6th Jul 18, 12:57 PM
    • 60,933 Posts
    • 43,491 Thanks
    soolin
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 18, 12:57 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 18, 12:57 PM
    For 1500 Paypal will refuse your claim if they can't get it back from the seller. In theory they are good in practice they don't like paying out of their own pockets.


    They are likely to put a hold on the seller withdrawn that high a value though so it should be stuck in their account for a while to see if anything happens.
    Originally posted by bris
    Paypal don't refuse a claim because there is no money in the sellers account - if that is what you are suggesting. Paypal protection is irrespective of funds in any account.

    Paypal protection is for 180 days after purchase, if they relied on funds being held sellers would have cash flow problems!
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Theonlywayisup is correct here, there is no restriction on seller funds if buyer invokes the PayPal protection guarantee. Your only worry, is as above, the returns costs if item turns out to be not as described.

    OP Just be careful to pay for named goods as a proper transaction, and don't be lured into sending a friends and family payment, or just paying for something that is not specifically named in the description.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 6th Jul 18, 1:03 PM
    • 4,076 Posts
    • 10,320 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 18, 1:03 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 18, 1:03 PM
    Of all the things I wouldn't buy second hand and sight unseen a parachute is pretty near the top of the list!
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    I think I'm with you on this one
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • sky_rat
    • By sky_rat 6th Jul 18, 5:26 PM
    • 171 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    sky_rat
    Of all the things I wouldn't buy second hand and sight unseen a parachute is pretty near the top of the list!
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    In terms of loosing out financially yes (hence the reason for my post) but in terms of the canopy resulting in injury or death its much less of an issue. The canopy will be inspected and fitted to my rig by a professional qualified rigger. In the worse case, if a main canopy malfunctions (which can happen but usually about 1 in 1000 jumps) there is a reserve parachute. I've had two malfunctions and have done 900 jumps over the last 14 years, but I've never had an injury. Statistically you are more likely to be involved in a road accident than a skydiving accident - travelling to and from the airfield is the most dangerous part !

    I called paypal who told me I would be covered providing I transfer the money as a goods/service (not friends/family) - the buyer has to pay a 3.5% fee. They also advised to copy and paste the advert word for word in the note section of the transaction.

    I know people who buy and sell skydiving gear all over the world but it still worries me paying so much money to a stranger in a different country.

    I am waiting for the seller to tell me the shipping costs, he estimates it will be less than 30 EUROS (it will be a small and light package).
    Last edited by sky_rat; 06-07-2018 at 5:49 PM.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 7th Jul 18, 1:07 PM
    • 9,145 Posts
    • 6,860 Thanks
    pmduk
    Facebook is not a medium to use for reliable transactions. End of.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 7th Jul 18, 5:55 PM
    • 32,737 Posts
    • 20,606 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Facebook is not a medium to use for reliable transactions. End of.
    Originally posted by pmduk

    Its not a site I would look to spend an amount like 1500 euros on.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 7th Jul 18, 6:03 PM
    • 16,436 Posts
    • 12,528 Thanks
    hollydays
    In the winter you can get cheap budget flights to Cagliari airport.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Jul 18, 6:47 PM
    • 4,423 Posts
    • 5,812 Thanks
    waamo
    Facebook is not a medium to use for reliable transactions. End of.
    Originally posted by pmduk
    I don't know. As the op is hurtling towards the ground I'm sure he will be more than happy knowing he has buyers protection on the second hand parachute bought of Facebook.
    This space for hire.
    • sky_rat
    • By sky_rat 12th Aug 18, 11:04 AM
    • 171 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    sky_rat
    Just thought I would update this post - the parachute arrived in less than a week and was as described in the advert, its virtually brand new and nearly 1000 cheaper than a new one. The parachute was inspected by a professional rigger and I have used it 10 times (bad weekend weather has stopped me from using it more).

    Unfortunately there is no dedicated site for selling used skydiving equipment, which is why there are quite a few different Facebook groups (which you have to request to join) that are setup for selling skydiving equipment. A lot of people buy used skydiving equipment as brand new equipment is extremely expensive, usually custom made with long lead times. The skydiving community is a very closed knit group of people and they have a reputation of taking care and looking out for each other. Thats probably because of the nature of the sport.

    I did a lot of background checking on the seller, I contacted the owner of the dropzone he works at to confirm his identity and character, I contacted mutual friends he had on Facebook, I asked friends of mine who are professional skydiving instructors and riggers for advice and opions. I found out the seller sells equipment all over the world, he has his own website selling new equipment and also owns a dropzone himself. Any bad publicity would have been a concern for his business.
    Last edited by sky_rat; 12-08-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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