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  • FIRST POST
    • Scootsy
    • By Scootsy 5th Jul 18, 8:59 PM
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    Scootsy
    Advice about renegotiating price, please
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:59 PM
    Advice about renegotiating price, please 5th Jul 18 at 8:59 PM
    I've lost confidence in my ability to be logical so would really appreciate your thoughts.
    Currently renting; viewed and put in an offer on a house which was accepted 3 months ago. House was originally marketed at 250,000, sat there for a couple of months and was then reduced to 240,000. I offered 240,000 originally then increased to 245,000 to secure it as another offer was on the table - think that was legit.

    First of all the mortgage valuation survey found the cavity wall ties need replacing, which is now a condition of the mortgage - estimated cost 3000. Then my buildings survey this week highlighted 2 urgent issues - rebuilding a bay window and replacing flashing and mortar around the chimney together with assorted other repointing etc which needs to be looked at quite soon. Surveyor estimates 2-3K for the bay window; not sure about the chimney but I'd guess I'm looking at about 10K of work overall.

    I told the agent I'd be asking for a reduction in the price when the wall ties issue came up but he (sensibly) suggested waiting for the survey.

    So my question is, what is a reasonable revised figure to put on the table? 240,000? Less than that? I don't want to play games or be unfair but I'm looking at rather more urgent and expensive building work than I expected...
Page 1
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 5th Jul 18, 9:20 PM
    • 4,567 Posts
    • 6,586 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:20 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:20 PM
    What did the mortgage valuation say about the value?
    • Scootsy
    • By Scootsy 7th Jul 18, 7:58 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Scootsy
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 18, 7:58 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 18, 7:58 PM
    Sorry, didn't get the notification that there was a reply - not ignoring you! Mortgage valuation downvalued by 2K and attached wall tie replacement condition but was very basic valuation-only survey so didn't look at the other issues that came up in my survey.

    My solicitor came back from her holiday a day early so I spoke to her and she advised asking for a 12K reduction as an opening gambit so I've emailed the EA to put my case. Now just have to wait and see what the vendor says. The house is definitely slightly overpriced compared to similar properties and because the work that needs doing is remedial rather than improvement, it's not going to add value so I probably do need to be prepared to walk away and lose the 2K+ I've spent so far
    • Denspe
    • By Denspe 8th Jul 18, 8:23 AM
    • 10 Posts
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    Denspe
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:23 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:23 AM
    We are in a similar position mortgage valuation came back 14k lower than asking price & home buying report came back with a number of issues and also down valued by 24k. Vendors are not willing to reduce even though we offered full asking price. So looks like we also will be walking away and losing a considerable amount of money. I!!!8217;ve tried to explain any other buyer will have the same issues.
    • Lauralou79
    • By Lauralou79 8th Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    • 218 Posts
    • 226 Thanks
    Lauralou79
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    Our valuation matched the asking. Our private survey mentioned the chimney pointing, roof work and House repointing amongst other things.
    We didn't ask for a reduction as it was valued at the same price. Also it's a 1930s semi that will need regular maintaince.

    Who knows what your vendor will reduce to, if they will. They may need a certain amount to fufil their own purchase. I think your solicitor may be ambitious with that figure tho!
    • Scootsy
    • By Scootsy 8th Jul 18, 10:52 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    Scootsy
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 18, 10:52 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 18, 10:52 AM
    The vendor doesn't have a mortgage so shouldn't *need* the money to purchase her new property. On the other hand, she was apparently very reluctant to reduce the asking price from the initial 250K at which it was marketed, so who knows? What's clear is that she hasn't done any maintenance to the outside of the property in the 12 years she's been there...

    Good luck to anyone in the same situation and thanks for the replies.
    • Lauralou79
    • By Lauralou79 8th Jul 18, 11:09 AM
    • 218 Posts
    • 226 Thanks
    Lauralou79
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:09 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:09 AM
    On the other hand the vendor could state that you could see it was in need of maintenance when you offered what you did.
    Anyway good luck with whatever you decide!
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 8th Jul 18, 11:37 AM
    • 4,380 Posts
    • 5,990 Thanks
    kinger101
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:37 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:37 AM
    It was probably a mistake in hindsight to not get a valuation with your survey. There's an inherent maintenance obligation with any old house I'm afraid. Re-pointing and flashing a chimney isn't going to be that much. Easily under 1K, unless scaffolding is required.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Jul 18, 11:47 AM
    • 17,784 Posts
    • 16,112 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:47 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 11:47 AM
    First of all the mortgage valuation survey found the cavity wall ties need replacing, which is now a condition of the mortgage - estimated cost 3000. Then my buildings survey this week highlighted 2 urgent issues - rebuilding a bay window and replacing flashing and mortar around the chimney together with assorted other repointing etc which needs to be looked at quite soon. Surveyor estimates 2-3K for the bay window; not sure about the chimney but I'd guess I'm looking at about 10K of work overall.
    Originally posted by Scootsy
    But what did it say for valuation?

    If it agreed with your 245k offer, then the surveyor is saying that price is fair WITH that work needed, because that work is taken account of in the current offer.


    Sorry, didn't get the notification that there was a reply - not ignoring you! Mortgage valuation downvalued by 2K
    Originally posted by Scootsy
    There y'go, then. You can ask for 2k off, if you really feel the need.
    • Scootsy
    • By Scootsy 8th Jul 18, 2:17 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Scootsy
    Hi all,
    It was probably a mistake in hindsight to not get a valuation with your survey. There's an inherent maintenance obligation with any old house I'm afraid. Re-pointing and flashing a chimney isn't going to be that much. Easily under 1K, unless scaffolding is required.
    Just a couple of clarifications - scaffolding definitely required for chimney and there wasn't the option of getting a full survey with the mortgage (I would definitely have taken it if there was!)

    Anyway, we'll see what the week brings...
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Jul 18, 2:24 PM
    • 17,784 Posts
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    AdrianC
    There is ALWAYS the option of getting a full survey. Even if the lender's valuer doesn't offer the choice of upgrading their visit, you can get your own surveyor to visit.
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 8th Jul 18, 3:12 PM
    • 4,380 Posts
    • 5,990 Thanks
    kinger101
    Hi all,


    Just a couple of clarifications - scaffolding definitely required for chimney and there wasn't the option of getting a full survey with the mortgage (I would definitely have taken it if there was!)

    Anyway, we'll see what the week brings...
    Originally posted by Scootsy
    You could ask the guy who did your buildings survey if he'll add an valuation. That part is done from the desk, so he wouldn't need to revisit the property.
    • MysteryMe
    • By MysteryMe 8th Jul 18, 5:08 PM
    • 1,870 Posts
    • 2,268 Thanks
    MysteryMe
    You seem to be quite judgemental on the vendor, what they have or haven't done and whether they have a mortgage or not is neither here nor there. You don't know their life or circumstances.

    They have not undertaken maintenance, so that is reflected in the price the house is being marketed at and the value of a house in that condition appears to be 2000 less than your offer, which would be a reasonable amount to ask as a reduction.

    You have asked for 12000 off which suggests you are expecting to be able to double dip. Getting a house cheaper because it is not in tip top condition and then getting the vendor to pay for the maintenance needed that is already factored into the asking price
    • Scootsy
    • By Scootsy 8th Jul 18, 6:12 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Scootsy
    Blimey, some strong feelings being expressed here; not sure if I didn't give enough initial detail or if posters are just making some assumptions. 245,000 is basically top whack for a house in the area and other houses have sold recently for the same or less in what appears to be much better internal and external order, so I really don't see how the asking price reflects the work needed. If I pay for all the work needed, I'll basically be paying 257,000 for the house which is way over the odds.

    The mortgage valuation picked up the wall ties issue but nothing else, whereas my surveyor was absolutely adamant that the other issues were even more urgent to address (I spoke to her once I'd received the survey to check my understanding of what it said). My inference from that is that the valuation survey was a pretty cursory affair.

    Anyway, thanks to everyone who took the time to post.
    • MysteryMe
    • By MysteryMe 8th Jul 18, 8:59 PM
    • 1,870 Posts
    • 2,268 Thanks
    MysteryMe
    If you ask for opinion from people who are impartial then you must accept not everyone is going to agree with your line of thinking.

    We don't know what value the surveyor put on the house because although you spoke to them post survey you didn't ask. For all we know she might give a figure close to the original valuation.

    We don't know what the actual cost of repairs is because there does not appear to be any quotes from builders mentioned.

    Without that information I'm not sure how you can state you would be paying 12000 over the odds.

    With regard the roof there is no mention of it leaking suggesting the flashing is still sound. I would have hoped both you and the valuer would have spotted signs of historical staining on the ceiling and walls around the chimney breast even allowing for the very dry conditions of late.
    • Scootsy
    • By Scootsy 8th Jul 18, 9:29 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Scootsy
    If you ask for opinion from people who are impartial then you must accept not everyone is going to agree with your line of thinking.
    Absolutely. I didn't mean to seem defensive. I think I tried not to post too much information but ended up not posting enough.
    We don't know what value the surveyor put on the house because although you spoke to them post survey you didn't ask. For all we know she might give a figure close to the original valuation.
    That's true.
    We don't know what the actual cost of repairs is because there does not appear to be any quotes from builders mentioned.
    Without that information I'm not sure how you can state you would be paying 12000 over the odds.
    The EA organised a quote for the wall ties (3K) and the surveyor estimated 6-7K for the chimney and bay window. The mortgage valuation devalued by 2K.
    I would have hoped both you and the valuer would have spotted signs of historical staining on the ceiling and walls around the chimney breast even allowing for the very dry conditions of late
    The surveyor picked it up and the vendor's son confirmed rather sheepishly that it was a problem.

    I totally accept and expect that there will be maintenance costs involved in buying an old house, and if the asking price reflected that I wouldn't even be asking the question. I do think, though, that if you set a price at the very top end of the local market there's an implication that your house is in fairly good nick.

    I doubt the vendor will agree to 12K but I'm hoping she agrees to drop the price to some extent.

    Apologies for not giving enough detail initially.
    • takman
    • By takman 8th Jul 18, 10:13 PM
    • 3,490 Posts
    • 3,123 Thanks
    takman
    Blimey, some strong feelings being expressed here; not sure if I didn't give enough initial detail or if posters are just making some assumptions. 245,000 is basically top whack for a house in the area and other houses have sold recently for the same or less in what appears to be much better internal and external order, so I really don't see how the asking price reflects the work needed. If I pay for all the work needed, I'll basically be paying 257,000 for the house which is way over the odds.
    Originally posted by Scootsy
    But your the one who put in an offer of 245,000. Why did you do that if you have seen houses that have sold in a better condition?
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 9th Jul 18, 6:58 PM
    • 1,679 Posts
    • 1,449 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    Hi all,


    Just a couple of clarifications - scaffolding definitely required for chimney and there wasn't the option of getting a full survey with the mortgage (I would definitely have taken it if there was!)

    Anyway, we'll see what the week brings...
    Originally posted by Scootsy

    You could have instructed your own survey.
    • Scootsy
    • By Scootsy 9th Jul 18, 8:00 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Scootsy
    You could have instructed your own survey.
    Yes, but on the advice of my solicitor I didn't. (The vendor was taking a long time completing the paperwork and submitting the contract and my solicitor was concerned that the vendor wasn't sure about selling so advised me not to pay for a survey until the situation was more definite.)
    • Asl77c
    • By Asl77c 9th Jul 18, 10:33 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    Asl77c
    Our survey said pointing was needed and a new roof. Got a qualified roofer to check and quote. Said all was fine and not needed at all. Our mortgage value matched and we accepted that for a house built in the 60s there would be things to do. We had an asbestos check come back with nearly 5k worth to make right. Didn't even contemplate asking the vendor for a reduction. It's our issue to deal with not theirs and all these things should be factored into the price you were happy to pay initially give or take the mortgage valuation. 12k is a mad figure to reach in my opinion, but if u get it then good luck to you.
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