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  • FIRST POST
    • msx.com
    • By msx.com 5th Jul 18, 8:40 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    msx.com
    BHX Apcoa Parking Charge Notice
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:40 PM
    BHX Apcoa Parking Charge Notice 5th Jul 18 at 8:40 PM
    Hello,

    Would really appreciate any help with this one please.
    Someone I know has received a parking charge notice from apcoa at birmingham airport. It is the usual pay now 50, after 14 days pay 100 after 28 days if not paid expect debt collectors or legal proceedings. I'm sure this all sounds familiar but they are very unsure what to do.

    The parking charge notice states:
    'notice is hereby served to the registered keeper of vehicle....'
    'for the alleged contravention of failing to park in a designated parking area'
    'the alleged contravention is a breach of the terms and conditions of use of the car park infrastructure where signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions'

    The amount of days between the incident and issue of notice is 27 days (not sure if this is relevant). There are 4 pictures, 1 number plate, 2 are the same and 2 of them showing a person dealing with something at the rear passenger door. The time span of these pictures is 8 seconds.

    The driver (who is not named nor will be named) had stopped near a junction off one of the very busy main roads in and out of the airport and it is part of their 'red route' to allow a passenger to deal with something very urgent in the back of the car (child related), the engine was not turned off and once dealt with they left very promptly (within 10 seconds).

    What I would like to know, in your experiences, is if they appealed the parking charge notice with this reason (more detailed information would be given) would apcoa just reject it without blinking an eye?
    Would they need to go down the appeal route with this template from the NEWBIES thread:

    Re PCN number:

    I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

    Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).

    I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed unanimously: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.

    Formal note:

    Service of any rejection letter/POPLA code and/or legal documents by email is expressly disallowed. All responses to me from this point on, must be made by post. Regardless of any MCOL online/email system, service of any court claim must only be made by first class post to the latest address provided by me.

    Yours faithfully,


    THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

    Can apcoa legally charge this amount of money for the alleged contravention? Can they enforce the 'red route' as it is airport land and not council owned? Can apcoa have legally obtained the keepers details?

    Please excuse me if I have asked or said anything in the wrong way as I'm very new to this.

    Thank you for any information and replies you can give.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 18, 8:50 PM
    • 59,478 Posts
    • 72,646 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:50 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:50 PM
    The driver (who is not named nor will be named) had stopped near a junction off one of the very busy main roads in and out of the airport and it is part of their 'red route' to allow a passenger to deal with something very urgent in the back of the car (child related), the engine was not turned off and once dealt with they left very promptly (within 10 seconds).

    What I would like to know, in your experiences, is if they appealed the parking charge notice with this reason (more detailed information would be given) would apcoa just reject it without blinking an eye?
    Yes and then the person might not win at POPLA because what you have described is hit and miss. Not a winning appeal, bound to lose first stage at least, and in danger of blabbing about who was driving. DON'T DO THIS.

    Would they need to go down the appeal route with this template from the NEWBIES thread.
    Yes and APCOA will either:

    - fold first time, or

    - fold when they see the next stage POPLA template (very long).

    We have 100% record v APCOA, so no trying to reinvent the wheel.

    What you are missing is the subliminal message in the template appeal that tells APCOA you have found MSE, and they will lose if they continue.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • msx.com
    • By msx.com 5th Jul 18, 9:03 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    msx.com
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:03 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:03 PM
    Wow, thank you for the quick reply!

    When you talk about MSE what does that mean?

    The scary thing about fighting this, is the scare monger tactics employed by these companies, especially the amounts of money they band around.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Jul 18, 9:05 PM
    • 8,069 Posts
    • 7,926 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:05 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:05 PM
    When you talk about MSE what does that mean?
    Originally posted by msx.com
    What is the name of the website you are now reading?
    .
    • msx.com
    • By msx.com 5th Jul 18, 9:09 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    msx.com
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:09 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:09 PM
    Lol!!

    My apologies, my brain isn't working properly after a long hot day at work.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 18, 9:19 PM
    • 59,478 Posts
    • 72,646 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:19 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:19 PM
    You'll soon see that APCOA are far from scary! They'll fold with their tail between their legs...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • msx.com
    • By msx.com 6th Jul 18, 8:05 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    msx.com
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 18, 8:05 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 18, 8:05 PM
    Having spoken to the keeper their concern is that it is in their name and that it could develop further by appeals being unsuccessful and then get taken to court. They don't want to pay it because the amount is obscene.

    Is there any other advice that can be given?

    Really appreciate all that has been said so far, thank you.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 6th Jul 18, 8:19 PM
    • 3,113 Posts
    • 4,757 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 18, 8:19 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 18, 8:19 PM
    Having spoken to the keeper their concern is that it is in their name and that it could develop further by appeals being unsuccessful and then get taken to court. They don't want to pay it because the amount is obscene.

    Is there any other advice that can be given?

    Really appreciate all that has been said so far, thank you.
    Originally posted by msx.com

    Do you really think that the regulars on here put in hundreds of hours of their own time into advising/writing guides etc for there to be a magic other way??


    It's only APCOA and it's an airport use the tried and tested advice given, it won't go to court!
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 6th Jul 18, 8:43 PM
    • 37,025 Posts
    • 83,639 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 18, 8:43 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 18, 8:43 PM
    So the NTK is non-POFA compliant and the alleged event happened on non-relevant land where byelaws apply. Two holes in one at PoPLA, so tell your friend to get stuck in and see CRAPCOA off.

    Initial appeal as per the template from the NEWBIES, second stage appeal using all the relevant template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES.

    Copy and paste and send. Not much effort required.

    They should also complain to their MP about this unregulated scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 06-07-2018 at 8:45 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Jul 18, 9:21 PM
    • 18,373 Posts
    • 29,074 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    APCOA and Court in the same sentence? You're 'avin' a larf!

    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/APCOA_Parking_UK.html

    Over 200,000 tickets issued in the past 2 years and just one court case (which was 2 years ago and probably nothing to do with parking at all!). Is your friend feeling (un)lucky, punk?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • msx.com
    • By msx.com 6th Jul 18, 10:17 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    msx.com
    Just had a read of POFA 2012, am I right in saying that because there were 17 working days from when the alleged incident happened until the date of issue of the NTK that they haven't got a leg to stand on?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Jul 18, 10:24 PM
    • 8,069 Posts
    • 7,926 Thanks
    KeithP
    Why are you reading POFA?

    You have already been told that this event did not take place on 'relevant land', so I am left wondering why you are asking?

    What does 'haven't got a leg to stand on' mean in this instance?

    If the NtK arrives late with the keeper, all that means is that they cannot use POFA2012 to transfer liability to the keeper.

    Does POFA even mention 'working days'?
    Last edited by KeithP; 06-07-2018 at 10:29 PM.
    .
    • msx.com
    • By msx.com 6th Jul 18, 10:35 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    msx.com
    Sorry, I misunderstood the previous comment.

    Thank you for pointing out where I have gone wrong.

    As you can tell I haven't done this before so if I make a mistake on here then I will at least get the right info to the keeper.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jul 18, 12:46 AM
    • 59,478 Posts
    • 72,646 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    WE WIN 100% OF CASES V APCOA.

    repeat after me!

    WE WIN 100% OF CASES V APCOA.

    What the heck are you worried about, APCOA are one of the easiest to beat!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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