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  • FIRST POST
    • Fefelarue
    • By Fefelarue 5th Jul 18, 3:33 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Fefelarue
    Private parking ticket while parked on public road opposite private car park
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:33 PM
    Private parking ticket while parked on public road opposite private car park 5th Jul 18 at 3:33 PM
    Hi guys.

    I've read the sticky, but can't find an answer to this specifically. Apologies if it's been covered.

    There's a road on an industrial estate that has lots of private parking spaces on it, with adequate signage. I parked on an empty area of the road (i.e. public land) and got a yellow ticket on the windscreen from a private company.

    I have "appealed" it using their online appeals process.

    The conversation so far:

    ME:
    Hi there.
    Please could you provide a photo of my car in the area that I was not allowed to park in?
    I am sure I parked it in an unmarked, unrestricted area of road.
    While there are parking spaces along the road that are marked with signage, the area I parked on was not one of those spaces - I made a point to check at the time of parking. There was no visible signage relating the area I parked in.
    Looking forward to your response, kind regards,


    THEM:
    Thank you for your representation you made on receiving a Parking Charge Notice with the above reference number.

    We have considered everything on your letter including any evidence enclosed but do not feel that you have made grounds for cancelling the Parking Charge Notice and as such payment remains due.

    Your vehicle was parked on our client’s property which is private land, in a PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY car park with NO VALID PERMIT DISPLAYED. More evidence can be viewed online by visiting

    We are fully compliant with British Parking Association regulations on signage, and confirm that there is adequate signage at this site that is visible, appropriately located, clear and legible, so the Parking Charge Notice is fully enforceable. There are adequate warning signs mounted prominently in the car park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure all signage is checked and understood before a vehicle is parked.
    There is a high demand for parking spaces in the area and to ensure that as much space as possible is made available for the use of the permit holders, any vehicle parked in a bay without a valid permit displayed may have enforcement action taken.
    If you have already made payment for your parking charge notice, please ignore the below:

    You now have a number of options;
    Pay the Parking Charge Notice online at or by calling our 24 hour payment line on 0330 008 0454 or payment can be made by posting a cheque made payable to Spring Parking Ltd. and sent to the above address. Please quote your ‘Parking Charge Notice’ Number and your vehicle registration number on the reverse.
    Make an appeal to POPLA within 28 days by going online and completing the form at Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the Parking Charge Notice will be charged in full at £95.00. Your POPLA reference number is . By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above. Please do not make a payment if you will be appealing through POPLA.
    If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you. This may incur additional costs.


    ME:
    Hi there.

    I have looked at the photos.

    In response to your "Your vehicle was parked on our client’s property which is private land, in a PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY car park." I'm afraid you're wrong there - you can see in the photos that i'm parked in the road.

    The signage itself is actually on a row of industrial units which have their own parking spaces. The sign is above said parking spaces.

    My car was across the road, parked on the road, not in one of the spaces, and everything you've mentioned below applies to the car park, not to the road. The photos do not show where my car is in reference to the sign anyway, so this is no evidence of anything.

    The road is not private land, and as you are a company, please could you explain what right you have to issue the fine. I am sure you're aware that only the council can issue parking fines for parking on a public road.

    Hopefully you agree and will respond with your acceptance of my point and cancellation of the fine.

    Looking forward to your response, kind regards,


    THEM:
    Thank you for your email the area is sign posted Authorised vehicles only with a valid permit displayed. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you. This may incur additional costs.


    ...

    Am I best just ignoring it here?

    I'm not remotely scared of court proceedings, given the photos show no trace of this "private car park," so i'm temped to call their bluff and tell them I look forward to seeing them in court, but I'm not sure it's the sensible thing to do.

    Any advice would be great.

    Thanks,
    Felix
Page 1
    • waamo
    • By waamo 5th Jul 18, 3:38 PM
    • 3,604 Posts
    • 4,769 Thanks
    waamo
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:38 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:38 PM
    If you have a POPLA code use it. Have you read the thread that tells Newbies to read it first? It doesn't sound like it.
    This space for hire.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Jul 18, 3:43 PM
    • 7,983 Posts
    • 7,844 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:43 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:43 PM
    Your best approach is to submit a POPLA appeal.

    There is good guidance on how to do that in post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Disappointing to see that you have already given away the driver's identity.

    Here are your chances of court:
    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Spring_Parking.html
    .
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 5th Jul 18, 3:52 PM
    • 4,181 Posts
    • 5,946 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:52 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:52 PM
    too late now, but all your talk of "I Parked" should be "the vehicle was parked"
    with the only reference to "I" being as the registered keeper.
    who's car park do they think your vehicle parked in?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Jul 18, 3:53 PM
    • 36,979 Posts
    • 83,589 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:53 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:53 PM
    Have you checked with the council whether this is a public or private road?

    The answer is very important.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fefelarue
    • By Fefelarue 5th Jul 18, 3:56 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fefelarue
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:56 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:56 PM
    If you have a POPLA code use it. Have you read the thread that tells Newbies to read it first? It doesn't sound like it.
    Originally posted by waamo
    I didn't know if it was relevant or not, given that it's not public land, and popla relates to private land appeals
    • Fefelarue
    • By Fefelarue 5th Jul 18, 3:59 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fefelarue
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:59 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:59 PM
    Your best approach is to submit a POPLA appeal.

    There is good guidance on how to do that in post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Disappointing to see that you have already given away the driver's identity.

    Here are your chances of court:
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thanks. As above I wasn't sure if it was relevant given that it's actually not private land

    too late now, but all your talk of "I Parked" should be "the vehicle was parked"
    with the only reference to "I" being as the registered keeper.
    who's car park do they think your vehicle parked in?
    Originally posted by Half_way
    thanks, good point for next time

    Have you checked with the council whether this is a public or private road?

    The answer is very important.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I know the road well, and have walked down it since and there's not a single "private road" sign, so i made the assumption. There is also an entrance to a railway station on it, so it's massively unlikely.

    Is there an easy way to double check though?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Jul 18, 4:01 PM
    • 36,979 Posts
    • 83,589 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 4:01 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 4:01 PM
    I didn't know if it was relevant or not, given that it's not public land, and popla relates to private land appeals
    Originally posted by Fefelarue
    The PCN is for an alleged event on private land, so you use PoPLA. One of your appeal points will be that the land where the vehicle was parked was not relevant land, assuming you have proof of that.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Jul 18, 4:02 PM
    • 36,979 Posts
    • 83,589 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 4:02 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 4:02 PM
    Thanks. As above I wasn't sure if it was relevant given that it's actually not private land



    thanks, good point for next time



    I know the road well, and have walked down it since and there's not a single "private road" sign, so i made the assumption. There is also an entrance to a railway station on it, so it's massively unlikely.

    Is there an easy way to double check though?
    Originally posted by Fefelarue
    You need to get proof of whether it is private or public land. This is absolutely imperative.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • waamo
    • By waamo 5th Jul 18, 4:03 PM
    • 3,604 Posts
    • 4,769 Thanks
    waamo
    You can check with the local council who owns it. Don't assume. It can bite you on the bum.
    This space for hire.
    • Fefelarue
    • By Fefelarue 5th Jul 18, 4:41 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fefelarue
    Wow, you guys have saved my !!! here, I have checked and it IS a private road. I am shocked because there's no signage, and it's used by hundreds of people every day to walk to the fairly busy station on it. That will teach me to assume stuff.

    That being said, the parking signage is still only above the parking spaces, so I will argue improper signage through the POPLA process.

    Have I f***ed it up by appealing something different (i.e. it being a public road) in my emails to them? Or can I still appeal to POPLA for a different reason (inadequate/unclear signage)?

    Thanks for everyone's replies so far
    • waamo
    • By waamo 5th Jul 18, 4:43 PM
    • 3,604 Posts
    • 4,769 Thanks
    waamo
    If you read the Newbies thread it goes through the whole appeals process with links to successful appeals you can use as a template.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 18, 4:54 PM
    • 59,410 Posts
    • 72,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please don't write your own appeal again. This is why we have templates.

    Which PPC?

    How old is the rejection letter, seeing as you wasted time replying again?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Jul 18, 6:18 PM
    • 2,699 Posts
    • 4,701 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Which PPC?
    payment can be made by posting a cheque made payable to Spring Parking Ltd. and sent to the above address
    It's mentioned in the dense text above. If it is a public road (and the OP should check with the Council) then a complaint to the BPA is in order
    About me: Capricorn. Likes: Tight defences, the tighter the better. Lucidity. Dislikes: Loquaciousness and magic words. WLTM: Someone with the facts, a private income and their own copy of the White Book.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 18, 6:27 PM
    • 59,410 Posts
    • 72,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Spring Parking - good - they are useless at POPLA.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fefelarue
    • By Fefelarue 5th Jul 18, 6:51 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fefelarue
    Please don't write your own appeal again. This is why we have templates.

    Which PPC?

    How old is the rejection letter, seeing as you wasted time replying again?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I won't, but my first instinct wasn't to go to the newbies thread and get a template, at the time I was certain I was right (obviously not now as it turns out is it a private road haha)

    The letter was only two days ago, parking notice is from 26th june

    It's mentioned in the dense text above. If it is a public road (and the OP should check with the Council) then a complaint to the BPA is in order
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    nah i was wrong, it is a private road.

    Thanks for the replies everyone. I will appeal through POPLA on the grounds that the signage was clearly meant to apply to the spaces, not the road.

    Next time I will come here first and do it properly from the start.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 18, 6:58 PM
    • 59,410 Posts
    • 72,561 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I will appeal through POPLA on the grounds that the signage was clearly meant to apply to the spaces, not the road.
    But that's not a POPLA appeal...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 5th Jul 18, 9:19 PM
    • 3,325 Posts
    • 4,863 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    I will appeal through POPLA on the grounds that the signage was clearly meant to apply to the spaces, not the road.

    Next time I will come here first and do it properly from the start.
    Originally posted by Fefelarue
    How about doing it properly (from now on) this time, and using the well-used POPLA appeal points, rather than going off-piste again with your grounds above?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Jul 18, 10:05 PM
    • 36,979 Posts
    • 83,589 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I won't, but my first instinct wasn't to go to the newbies thread and get a template, at the time I was certain I was right (obviously not now as it turns out is it a private road haha)

    The letter was only two days ago, parking notice is from 26th june


    nah i was wrong, it is a private road.

    Thanks for the replies everyone. I will appeal through POPLA on the grounds that the signage was clearly meant to apply to the spaces, not the road.

    Next time I will come here first and do it properly from the start.
    Originally posted by Fefelarue
    What about all the other appeal points in Post 3 of the NEWBIES? Surely you aren't going to make a very dangerous single point appeal?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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