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    • anonyjohn
    • By anonyjohn 5th Jul 18, 10:13 AM
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    anonyjohn
    Broken window - who is responsibe?
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:13 AM
    Broken window - who is responsibe? 5th Jul 18 at 10:13 AM
    Hi,

    I rent a house in Yorkshire on the usual AST. On Tuesday evening, after the penalty shootout we had some celebrating yobs drive by, one of whom chucked a half empty beer can at one of the windows and broken the outer pane of the double glazing on one of the downstairs windows.

    I took a few pictures and informed the landlord, assuming it would be covered by his insurance and he would replace it. I heard back from him this morning. He said he was sorry to hear what happened but that it was my responsibility to replace it. He said he doesn't mind whether I do it now or not, as along as it's done when we check out in the future. He said his insurance will not pay for it.

    Would be grateful for any thoughts on who is responsible to fix it?
Page 1
    • EmmyLou30
    • By EmmyLou30 5th Jul 18, 10:48 AM
    • 451 Posts
    • 552 Thanks
    EmmyLou30
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:48 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:48 AM
    Landlord insurance usually doesn't cover acts of vandalism which is essentially what this is, so he's probably right in saying his insurance doesn't cover it. In which case it falls to you to pay for it unfortunately....just as you would if you were the homeowner and someone vandalised your property and you couldn't catch the culprit and make him pay.
    • pinklady21
    • By pinklady21 5th Jul 18, 10:51 AM
    • 820 Posts
    • 593 Thanks
    pinklady21
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:51 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:51 AM
    But it wasn't the tenant who broke the window. It was unidentified yobs. I am not sure it is as clear cut as saying tenant is responsible, they do not own the window.
    If the window was damaged in a storm, say, would that be the tenant's responsibility?
    Interested to hear what others think.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 5th Jul 18, 10:55 AM
    • 13,280 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:55 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:55 AM
    The landlord is responsible for keeping in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house so the landlord should repair the window. Even if the OP had damaged the window the landlord would still be responsible for repairing it but could charge the tenant for it.

    See G_M's Repairing Obligations: the law, common misconceptions, reporting/enforcing, retaliatory eviction & the new tenant protection (2015)

    I think it would be worth the OP reporting the crime to the police to get a crime reference number just to cover his (or her) backside.

    Edit: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/housing_standards_in_private_rented_homes
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 5th Jul 18, 11:23 AM
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    saajan_12
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:23 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:23 AM
    The LL's insurance is irrelevant. There's two separate issues here
    1) WHO HAS TO FIX: The LL has an obligation to keep the property in good repair so even if the tenant damaged the window, the LL would need to ensure it is not dangerous by getting the window repaired and charging the tenant if the tenant doesn't resolve it in a timely manner.

    2) WHO HAS TO PAY: The Tenant is liable for damage whether intentional, accidental, through negligence or but their guests. The LL is liable for wear & tear, as well as specific outside factors such as the LL's property being in poor repair beforehand, a neighbour's leak, and criminal behaviour from outside persons unrelated to the tenant.

    Source: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/damage_or_wear_and_tear
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 5th Jul 18, 11:27 AM
    • 13,280 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:27 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:27 AM
    The LL's insurance is irrelevant. There's two separate issues here
    1) WHO HAS TO FIX: The LL has an obligation to keep the property in good repair so even if the tenant damaged the window, the LL would need to ensure it is not dangerous by getting the window repaired and charging the tenant if the tenant doesn't resolve it in a timely manner.

    2) WHO HAS TO PAY: The Tenant is liable for damage whether intentional, accidental, through negligence or but their guests. The LL is liable for wear & tear, as well as specific outside factors such as the LL's property being in poor repair beforehand, a neighbour's leak, and criminal behaviour from outside persons unrelated to the tenant.

    Source: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/damage_or_wear_and_tear
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    You should probably read the whole article you linked to, specifically....

    Damage due to crime
    It's usually the landlord's responsibility to repair damage caused by a crime.

    Examples include:

    windows broken by a burglar
    vandalism in a shared area such as a garden or hallway
    If your home has been damaged by crime, contact the police and ask for a crime report number.

    Tell your landlord if there has been any criminal damage to your home. Report any repairs you need and give your landlord a reasonable time to fix the problem.

    It is not your landlord's responsibility to replace any of your belongings that are stolen or damaged through crime.
    The OP did not break the window. The OP's guests did not break the window. The OP is not liable.
    • letitbe90
    • By letitbe90 5th Jul 18, 11:35 AM
    • 95 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    letitbe90
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:35 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:35 AM
    You should probably read the whole article you linked to, specifically....



    The OP did not break the window. The OP's guests did not break the window. The OP is not liable.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I don't think Saajan was implying the OP had to pay for the repair - from his post I gathered it was the LL's responsibility.
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 5th Jul 18, 11:49 AM
    • 8,634 Posts
    • 28,745 Thanks
    fairy lights
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:49 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:49 AM
    Landlord insurance usually doesn't cover acts of vandalism which is essentially what this is, so he's probably right in saying his insurance doesn't cover it. In which case it falls to you to pay for it unfortunately....just as you would if you were the homeowner and someone vandalised your property and you couldn't catch the culprit and make him pay.
    Originally posted by EmmyLou30
    Well exactly, the homeowner pays, so in this case the landlord.
    • anonyjohn
    • By anonyjohn 5th Jul 18, 12:37 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    anonyjohn
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:37 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:37 PM
    Thank you all, that's a goldmine of information and a big relief! I did report the incident to the police and have a reference number for the report. Now I need to figure out a way to put this all across to the landlord in a diplomatic manner

    Thank you again for all the comments, you've been hugely helpful!
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 5th Jul 18, 12:38 PM
    • 13,280 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    I don't think Saajan was implying the OP had to pay for the repair - from his post I gathered it was the LL's responsibility.
    Originally posted by letitbe90
    That is a good point well made.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 5th Jul 18, 12:39 PM
    • 16,074 Posts
    • 22,100 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Hi,

    I rent a house in Yorkshire on the usual AST. On Tuesday evening, after the penalty shootout we had some celebrating yobs drive by, one of whom chucked a half empty beer can at one of the windows and broken the outer pane of the double glazing on one of the downstairs windows.

    I took a few pictures and informed the landlord, assuming it would be covered by his insurance and he would replace it. I heard back from him this morning. He said he was sorry to hear what happened but that it was my responsibility to replace it. He said he doesn't mind whether I do it now or not, as along as it's done when we check out in the future. He said his insurance will not pay for it.

    Would be grateful for any thoughts on who is responsible to fix it?
    Originally posted by anonyjohn
    As this was an act of vandalism, it is the landlord's responsibility to pay.

    Did you report the vandalism to the police? Did you get a crime number?

    If not, then the LL might question why you didn't when it comes to whether he things it was vandalism (he pays) or you broke it (he deducts the cost from your deposit).
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Marvel1
    • By Marvel1 5th Jul 18, 1:46 PM
    • 3,640 Posts
    • 3,980 Thanks
    Marvel1
    Landlord insurance usually doesn't cover acts of vandalism which is essentially what this is, so he's probably right in saying his insurance doesn't cover it. In which case it falls to you to pay for it unfortunately....just as you would if you were the homeowner and someone vandalised your property and you couldn't catch the culprit and make him pay.
    Originally posted by EmmyLou30
    Big difference there.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 5th Jul 18, 1:55 PM
    • 1,509 Posts
    • 1,117 Thanks
    saajan_12
    2) WHO HAS TO PAY: The Tenant is liable for damage whether intentional, accidental, through negligence or but their guests. The LL is liable for wear & tear, as well as specific outside factors such as the LL's property being in poor repair beforehand, a neighbour's leak, and criminal behaviour from outside persons unrelated to the tenant.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    You should probably read the whole article you linked to, specifically....

    The OP did not break the window. The OP's guests did not break the window. The OP is not liable.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I agree, that's what I said! Was just trying to make the clarification that generally, tenants should only pay for damage that is their 'fault' but that includes many things other than just intentionally punching a hole in the wall (or window).

    In THIS case, the cause is genuinely neither the Landlord nor Tenant's fault, so until/unless the vandal can be found and held responsible, each party pays for their own property:
    - LL pays for any damage to the building, their window, their furniture..
    - Tenant pays for their personal possessions if damaged
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 5th Jul 18, 3:44 PM
    • 64,950 Posts
    • 381,244 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    If it were your mates larking about, or your mates driving by, it's the tenant's responsibility as it was "the tenant/visitors/because it was them living there" that caused it.

    Strangers/vandals is an attack on "the property", so it's the landlord's responsibility.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 5th Jul 18, 4:10 PM
    • 17,026 Posts
    • 41,947 Thanks
    FBaby
    I don't think it is black and white in the law as to who is financially responsible for the repair. It is clear that the LL has to ensure the property is secure though.

    I was told (maybe wrongly!) by a LA that this is why they put a clause in the contract to indicate that in the case of vandalism, the tenant was responsible for informing the LL, the LL was responsible for securing the property, but the cost was the responsibility of the tenant.

    Maybe it's worth checking if there is anything to that effect in the agreement.
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 5th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    • 6,384 Posts
    • 5,488 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    Hi,


    I rent a house in Yorkshire on the usual AST. On Tuesday evening, after the penalty shootout we had some celebrating yobs drive by, one of whom chucked a half empty beer can at one of the windows and broken the outer pane of the double glazing on one of the downstairs windows.
    Originally posted by anonyjohn
    English supporters can't handle the beer, that's why you get the yobs, you will have more trouble on Saturday when they lose to Sweden, board up your windows.


    They're coming home, coming home, coming home.
    Last edited by frugalmacdugal; 05-07-2018 at 4:37 PM.
    Y'all take care now.
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