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  • FIRST POST
    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 5th Jul 18, 9:49 AM
    • 137Posts
    • 46Thanks
    jtotheb
    BW Legal Letter of Claim
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:49 AM
    BW Legal Letter of Claim 5th Jul 18 at 9:49 AM
    I've just received a letter of claim from BWLegal for 'parking longer than the time paid for' in an NCP car park.

    I'm putting together my response letter and will craft a response using the templates from LoadsofChildren123 and Daniel san. However, given that this was a ANPR monitored car park, should I not just use the ANPR template response from Coupon-mad? Or should I combine all three? It would make quite a large response if I used aspects of all of them!

    TIA
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Jul 18, 10:05 AM
    • 9,290 Posts
    • 12,211 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:05 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:05 AM
    I've just received a letter of claim from BWLegal for 'parking longer than the time paid for' in an NCP car park.

    I'm putting together my response letter and will craft a response using the templates from LoadsofChildren123 and Daniel san. However, given that this was a ANPR monitored car park, should I not just use the ANPR template response from Coupon-mad? Or should I combine all three? It would make quite a large response if I used aspects of all of them!

    TIA
    Originally posted by jtotheb
    Is it a LBA from BWL or the court ? and have they complied
    to the new protocal whereby they must offer you proof of
    their claim and give you 30 days to respond
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 5th Jul 18, 10:11 AM
    • 137 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    jtotheb
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:11 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:11 AM
    It's a letter of claim from BWL - pretty much identical to this one https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74473294&postcount=8

    except that contravention is 'Parker longer than the time paid for'
    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 5th Jul 18, 10:15 AM
    • 137 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    jtotheb
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:15 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:15 AM
    There is no proof of claim included, although the original postal PCN I received from NCP included a picture of the car leaving the car park - presumably later than the duration of parking that had been paid for.
    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 5th Jul 18, 1:08 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    jtotheb
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:08 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:08 PM
    OK, bizarrely I've just received an email from BW Legal as well - see text below. The bits I've blocked out are actually SOMEONE ELSE's name and reference number, not matching up to mine from the letter I've received! Surely this is a data breach of some kind??

    Dear xxxx,
    This is an important message from BW Legal regarding your Parking Charge Limited account.
    We are trying to contact you regarding your account. Please call us as soon as possible on 0113 323 4497 quoting Reference "Txxxx".
    Our office opening hours are:
    Monday to Thursday 8am-8pm
    Friday 8am-7pm
    Saturday 9am-1pm
    If you wish to correspond about your account via email at parking@bwlegal.co.uk we can help but we would first need you to confirm some data protection questions. Please therefore advise us how we can help or provide details of any questions/queries and include:
    Our Reference "Txxxx"
    how we can help; or
    provide details of any questions/queries; and include
    your Full Name; and
    date of birth; and
    address including postcode; and
    contact number.
    You can also manage your account online by logging on to our portal at portal.bwlegal.co.uk. Once registered your account will allow you to: Create your online account today and take advantage of the flexibility the customer portal offers, allowing you to utilise all the features of the site at your convenience which are listed below:
    Create / view / amend your payment plan
    Create / view / amend your income and expenditure details
    View / amend your personal details
    View your account details
    View our jargon buster of legal terminology and how we can assist you
    Ask an online question
    Request a call back
    Talk to us via webchat
    Yours sincerely,
    BW Legal
    bw legal
    N.B. To opt out of email communication from BW Legal, please reply to this email quoting Reference Number "Txxxx".
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Jul 18, 1:17 PM
    • 9,290 Posts
    • 12,211 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:17 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:17 PM
    OH DEAR ... If this is nothing to do with you then it's a no
    brainer, advise the ICO of a data breach by BWLegal

    Crazy company
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Jul 18, 1:30 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,181 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:30 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:30 PM
    advise the ICO of a data breach by BWLegal
    Also complain about the collection of unnecessary personal details such as DoB and Contact number
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Jul 18, 1:38 PM
    • 10,567 Posts
    • 10,401 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:38 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:38 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 18, 1:48 PM
    • 63,872 Posts
    • 76,518 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:48 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 1:48 PM
    And a quick email to Steve Clark at the BPA, telling him that NCP are using a solicitor who have just breached data protection law by sending that email (attach it, and a copy of the LBC) and mention (as per IamEmanresu) about the collection of unnecessary personal details such as DoB and Contact number, and tell him you are reporting BOTH companies to the ICO.

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    The good thing about a complaint to the BPA might mean NCP will scurry to cancel and brush it under the carpet then your claim is 'scam over'. Meanwhile the ICO may well still investigate - we do need to throw more complaints at the ICO, well worded ones.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 05-07-2018 at 1:50 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 5th Jul 18, 2:08 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    jtotheb
    Should I mention this email in my response to their Letter of Claim? Perhaps using it as leverage to force them to stop wasting my time and cancelling their claim? ie. say 'cancel it or else I'll complain to the ICO'?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Jul 18, 2:13 PM
    • 9,290 Posts
    • 12,211 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Should I mention this email in my response to their Letter of Claim? Perhaps using it as leverage to force them to stop wasting my time and cancelling their claim? ie. say 'cancel it or else I'll complain to the ICO'?
    Originally posted by jtotheb
    Bottom line is that these vermin are money terrorists
    so anything and everything should be thrown at them.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 5th Jul 18, 2:13 PM
    • 6,612 Posts
    • 4,570 Thanks
    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    I would ICO it and not blackmail them into dropping it or else!.

    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Jul 18, 2:19 PM
    • 9,290 Posts
    • 12,211 Thanks
    beamerguy
    I would ICO it and not blackmail them into dropping it or else!.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Interesting point but we are dealing with people who
    just love to blackmail people with their letters and lies.

    It's gone too far, the "or else" is the complaint to the ICO

    These parking mobsters have brought this on all by themselves
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 5th Jul 18, 2:24 PM
    • 6,612 Posts
    • 4,570 Thanks
    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Interesting point but we are dealing with people who
    just love to blackmail people with their letters and lies.

    It's gone too far, the "or else" is the complaint to the ICO

    These parking mobsters have brought this on all by themselves
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    That is true to but one must remain in honour in the eyes of a court system or youll get bitten!. The issue the OP faces is one of two different types, one of breach of data and one of handling a overstay. They should remain separate, or the OP in is going to look like a person who straight up blackmailed them into dropping it over something that is unrelated to the case itself. making him look dishonourable infront of a judge. let BWL do all the blackmailing and dishonourable stuff, if it gets to court and OP is squeaky clean then it goes to show he is an honest person.

    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 5th Jul 18, 2:29 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    jtotheb
    making him look dishonourable infront of a judge. let BWL do all the blackmailing and dishonourable stuff, if it gets to court and OP is squeaky clean then it goes to show he is an honest person.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    That is a valid point. Maybe in my response I should mention the data breach and see if they want to draw their own conclusions about whether they want to cancel this or not....
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Jul 18, 2:36 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,181 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    #ATRIXBLUE.-MFR-. is passing on good advice. For the sake of clarity

    Breaches of the code = BPA
    Breaches of KADOE = DVLA
    Breaches of DPA = ICO.

    Cross complaining about issues that organisations can do nothing about and have no authority to do anything about just wastes time, causes resentment, and marks the complainant out as someone who hasn't thought the issue through. [Guilty of this before but have seen recent clarification of the issues]
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 27th Jul 18, 2:23 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    jtotheb
    Letter sent to BWLegal in response to their Letter of Claim and a standard response has been received from them. I've started researching what to do in terms of them taking this to court but the real facts of this case are that I did park for longer than I'd paid for (by about 30 mins).

    In this case, what would my defence be?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Jul 18, 2:28 PM
    • 63,872 Posts
    • 76,518 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Were you actually almost 30 minutes past paid-for time (all time being an overstay at the end), or maybe 15 minutes on arrival to get an app to work, and then ten to leave after the paid-for time?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • jtotheb
    • By jtotheb 27th Jul 18, 2:34 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    jtotheb
    Were you actually almost 30 minutes past paid-for time (all time being an overstay at the end), or maybe 15 minutes on arrival to get an app to work, and then ten to leave after the paid-for time?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    They have an ANPR entry timestamped image of my car at time x and an ANPR exit time stamped image of my car at time x+60 minutes. I believe I paid for 30 minutes (although I think we used my wife's Ringgo account as it's not on mine, so I'll need to check on the actual time we used the app when I get to see her later).

    Here's some images I took of the car park yesterday. https://ibb.co/album/hFSFdv

    As you can see, it's not until you start driving down the slope to the car park (https://ibb.co/fkKLio) that you see the sign showing you the T&Cs - by that time, it's too late to reverse back up (which would be very dangerous) and then you are caught by the ANPR https://ibb.co/nhw5G8.
    Last edited by jtotheb; 27-07-2018 at 3:00 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Jul 18, 4:51 PM
    • 63,872 Posts
    • 76,518 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I know that place, near Nandos in Epsom; my friend lives nearby. There are a few free roads there but not many, and the Ashley Centre. I would never have chosen that NCP car park...!

    Anyway you can't say you didn't see the signs because you/your wife read them in order to pay for 30 minutes.

    However, BW Legal are shockingly bad with defended cases and you may as well defend.

    In this case, what would my defence be?
    Hmmm...difficult one to find a focus for, but still worth fighting even to kick out the added made up 'costs'. This is one that could be lost but maybe BW Legal will muck it up as per usual.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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