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  • FIRST POST
    • copper1066
    • By copper1066 4th Jul 18, 5:24 PM
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    copper1066
    Halifax Clarity Card - ATM Exchange Rate
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 18, 5:24 PM
    Halifax Clarity Card - ATM Exchange Rate 4th Jul 18 at 5:24 PM
    Whilst on holiday in Italy I took cash out from a bank ATM. There was no charge for doing this, but the exchange rate I got was terrible 1.08 euros/gbp. I thought that I was meant to get mastercard market rate 1.14 (at time of writing).

    Have I missed something here? Does anyone have any recommendations for using a Halifax clarity card in Italy
Page 1
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 4th Jul 18, 5:42 PM
    • 2,943 Posts
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    TadleyBaggie
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 5:42 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 5:42 PM
    Was this the ATM offered exchange rate or the one from Halifax?
    • copper1066
    • By copper1066 4th Jul 18, 6:08 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    copper1066
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 6:08 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 6:08 PM
    i think it was the ATM offered exchange rate. Is there certain ATM's I need to go to in order to get a the halifax exchange rate?
    • zx81
    • By zx81 4th Jul 18, 6:11 PM
    • 19,349 Posts
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    zx81
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 18, 6:11 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 18, 6:11 PM
    They should all offer the conversion option. Always decline.
    • bd10
    • By bd10 4th Jul 18, 6:58 PM
    • 54 Posts
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    bd10
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 18, 6:58 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 18, 6:58 PM
    You fell for the DCC scam. Never let anyone but the credit card itself (i.e. Mastercard) do the FX conversion for you.
    Do you remember the provider of the ATM? Was it Euronet? They are one of the largest providers of ATM that live off DCC.
    Have a look on the mastercard website. They list ATM. http://www.mastercard.com/interactivelocator/atm.html
    My guess (based on my experience in NL) would be, stay with official bank ATMs and stay away from independent places. Bank ATMs may well offer you conversion as well, which you should decline but at least they should not trick you as badly as Euronet's ATMs.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 4th Jul 18, 7:51 PM
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    agrinnall
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 18, 7:51 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 18, 7:51 PM
    I'd agree with bd10 that using bank ATMs is the safest option, I started to use a convenience store ATM in Ireland but gave up as the selections necessary to get the non-DCC rate were very unclear. It was simpler to walk down the road to a nearby bank.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 5th Jul 18, 8:17 AM
    • 6,950 Posts
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    chattychappy
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:17 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:17 AM
    They should all offer the conversion option. Always decline.
    Originally posted by zx81
    Do we know that this is true? Certainly it is the case with purchases from a retailer - you should always be able to purchase without local conversion.

    But with ATMs? Most of the foreign currency ATMs in the UK do not allow billing in the foreign currency. Eg Moneycorp at Gatwick only allows you to choose with/without conversion if you are using Mastercard. Put a Visa card in and you have no choice. (Not sure about foreign Visas). I know this is a slightly different situation to using an ATM overseas.

    Personally, I have never encountered an ATM that doesn't allow billing in the local currency.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 5th Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    • 3,903 Posts
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    cloud_dog
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    Apologies to side track the OPs thread slightly but this is relevant.

    We use a Halifax Clarity CC simply for purchases abroad but over the last couple or so years I have noticed an increase in the instances where payments go through as GBP even though you have selected local currency. This obviously means you get a worse exchange rate than you would normally receive.

    Has anyone else noticed this and also how are people trying to counteract this 'scheme'?

    As an example, and whilst not ideal, I am considering taking a larger proportion of cash this summers hols.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 5th Jul 18, 9:00 AM
    • 6,950 Posts
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    chattychappy
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:00 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:00 AM
    Not had that experience yet. But the hassle of avoiding DCC means I do use cash more - using Clarity in an ATM and spending cash. Particularly for small transactions.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 5th Jul 18, 9:03 AM
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    cloud_dog
    Not had that experience yet. But the hassle of avoiding DCC means I do use cash more - using Clarity in an ATM and spending cash. Particularly for small transactions.
    Originally posted by chattychappy
    Excuse my ignorance but with Halifax Clarity being a CC are you not charged interest on your cash withdrawals? I've never taken cash from a CC.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 5th Jul 18, 9:11 AM
    • 6,950 Posts
    • 3,795 Thanks
    chattychappy
    Excuse my ignorance but with Halifax Clarity being a CC are you not charged interest on your cash withdrawals? I've never taken cash from a CC.
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    Yes you are charged interest. But unlike most CCs, there are no further fees to pay on Clarity.

    Interest is calculated and charged daily, so what most people do is pay off the withdrawal within a few days. (If there's a balance from an earlier statement then you must pay this too because of the way payment allocation works.)

    Clarity interest rates vary. Mine is APR 12.9%. So if I do an ATM withdrawal of 100 and pay back a week later, the interest is about 25p. Usually I pay a day or so later so interest is pennies. You can see, even if your APR is much higher, provided you pay in a few days, the interest is tiny. On the other hand, if you use a debit card which loads the exchange rate, you could be paying 2.75% extra (2.75 on 100). If you are caught by DCC, you could be paying as much as 9% more (9 on 100) !
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 5th Jul 18, 9:32 AM
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    cloud_dog
    Ok.

    I usually 'load up' a couple of bank accounts with cash just in case we need additional money/cash. We mainly spend on the Clarity CC.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • bd10
    • By bd10 5th Jul 18, 11:53 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    bd10
    Mastercard Transaction Processing Rules
    Here's the link to Mastercard's Transaction Processing Rules:
    https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/mccom/global/documents/transaction-processing-rules.pdf
    Section 3.8 is key here (pp 83-84).
    I keep a print out of that in my wallet, just in case. Besides, before getting the rulebook out, I refuse to pay in anything which is not legal tender, if not I walk.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 5th Jul 18, 2:01 PM
    • 3,903 Posts
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    cloud_dog
    Yes but... I have experienced situations where I have been prompted to select GBP or Euro / local currency, have selected Euro (always have done) but the payment has still gone through as GBP.

    It is this PoS 'scheme' (don't wan't to say scam) that is becoming concerning. The PoS device basically ignores / overrides your selection (don't mean to imply intelligence within the device but....you know what I mean).
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • bd10
    • By bd10 5th Jul 18, 5:07 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    bd10
    @cloud_dog:
    I heard about that. That the POS terminal user will be prompted once more after we the customer selected say EUR. That leave the door open for manipulating the customer order. If that's the case, I'd have the POS terminal in front of me all the time, not handing it back after having entered the PIN. Will be checking up on that this summer when on holidays.

    Look, the whole DCC is a huge scam. Legal one mind you. I work in FX (wholesale side) and it makes me angry every time I read about it. EU regulation have clamped down on interchange fees of CC issuers on the one hand but allowing DCC to continue? Absurd!
    • takman
    • By takman 5th Jul 18, 5:27 PM
    • 3,771 Posts
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    takman
    Ok.

    I usually 'load up' a couple of bank accounts with cash just in case we need additional money/cash. We mainly spend on the Clarity CC.
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    I hope one of them is a Starling account or similar so that you don't pay any fees to withdraw cash abroad?

    Personally i never take any cash with me (like alot of people on here) i have a Halifax Clarity Card, Monzo (now limited to 200 a month cash) and Starling which all offer almost perfect exchange rates and no fees for spending or withdrawing cash.

    If you get a couple of these accounts (there are others) you don't have to worry about taking any cash with you.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 5th Jul 18, 10:25 PM
    • 3,903 Posts
    • 2,348 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    At the moment they are just 'standard' current accounts (Santander / Nationwide). They are only ever accessed in case of emergency, i.e. we've run out of cash, and or cannot use the Clarity CC.

    I'll look in to the Starling account.

    Although, coming back to the OPs post if, for whatever reason, the ATM charges you 'their' exchange rate having a Starling account is of no benefit (obviously if you can and do take it as Euro for example then you benefit from the Starling rates).
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • takman
    • By takman 5th Jul 18, 11:21 PM
    • 3,771 Posts
    • 3,434 Thanks
    takman
    Although, coming back to the OPs post if, for whatever reason, the ATM charges you 'their' exchange rate having a Starling account is of no benefit (obviously if you can and do take it as Euro for example then you benefit from the Starling rates).
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    Certain countries/areas you have to be really vigilant when I comes to withdrawing cash / making purchases. I always make it clear when paying in shops that I want to pay in the local currency and keep the card machine In my hand after I enter my pin.
    On cash machines I always make sure i read it properly and I would cancel the transaction if I can't see how to avoid the DCC option.

    This has meant I have only ever once been caught by DCC in a shop but as it was only around 10p difference I let it go.
    • Emily Joy
    • By Emily Joy 8th Jul 18, 5:34 AM
    • 190 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    Emily Joy
    I received a letter from Halifax yesterday stating that the T&C are changing from 21st of September onwards, and the cash transaction fee is set to 0%. I was somewhat surprised, to say the least...
    • mark9660
    • By mark9660 9th Jul 18, 4:29 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mark9660
    An aside but beware
    As an aside on this, I was in Greece a couple of weeks ago and we needed some cash, so I paid 100 into my Clarity account and a day or so later took out Euros 100 from an ATM. My latest statement has just come through and I have been charged a small amount of interest. On querying this I have been informed that they used The 100 first of all to pay off a couple of normal transactions from before the cash withdrawal. I think this is wrong as they should wait until the due payment date before paying off these transactions, and should have paid for the Euros first.
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