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  • FIRST POST
    • Dird
    • By Dird 4th Jul 18, 3:20 PM
    • 2,617Posts
    • 1,561Thanks
    Dird
    Lindsell Train on iWeb
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:20 PM
    Lindsell Train on iWeb 4th Jul 18 at 3:20 PM
    Any idea why they don't like them? 5bn fund excluded
    http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F00000T65V
    https://www.markets.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/funds-centre/fund-supermarket/

    Their Twitter account simply says it doesn't meet their "trading criteria" which apparently can't be revealed but at the same time they accept Fundsmith who takes a similar approach
    Last edited by Dird; 04-07-2018 at 3:39 PM.
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Page 2
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 7th Jul 18, 7:20 PM
    • 3,127 Posts
    • 2,461 Thanks
    Alexland
    I am not sure if HL have any funds discounted greater than their platform fee but it certainly helps especially if you have other reasons to be with HL such as the limited choice in the LISA market.
    • DennisTenus
    • By DennisTenus 10th Jul 18, 3:31 PM
    • 245 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DennisTenus
    I am not sure if HL have any funds discounted greater than their platform fee but it certainly helps especially if you have other reasons to be with HL such as the limited choice in the LISA market.
    Originally posted by Alexland
    Ok, to be clear then, LTGE on HL is 0.54% after discount and 0.74% on CSD (and others I'm guessing).

    HL fee is 0.45% and CSD 0.25% so difference of 0.20% which is the discount amount so basically is it the same cost to hold it at both HL and CSD?

    Thanks
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 10th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    • 4,570 Posts
    • 5,866 Thanks
    ColdIron
    Ok, to be clear then, LTGE on HL is 0.54% after discount and 0.74% on CSD (and others I'm guessing).

    HL fee is 0.45% and CSD 0.25% so difference of 0.20% which is the discount amount so basically is it the same cost to hold it at both HL and CSD?
    Originally posted by DennisTenus
    That's right, in this case HL have the D class that CSD does not (B class only) and the saving is the same as the extra platform fee. For many other funds this won't be true

    Sometimes HL get access to cheaper classes because of their size so the OCF taken from within the fund is lower. For other funds where there is no cheaper class available sometimes they simply discount the OCF by providing a 'loyalty bonus' which is provided as cash. This cash must be spent by reinvesting in the same or a different fund. It can't be used to pay fees or withdraw. The effect is the same to you

    With some funds, such as the Woodford ones, they have a mixture of discounted classes and a loyalty bonus
    • DennisTenus
    • By DennisTenus 10th Jul 18, 5:14 PM
    • 245 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DennisTenus
    That's right, in this case HL have the D class that CSD does not (B class only) and the saving is the same as the extra platform fee. For many other funds this won't be true

    Sometimes HL get access to cheaper classes because of their size so the OCF taken from within the fund is lower. For other funds where there is no cheaper class available sometimes they simply discount the OCF by providing a 'loyalty bonus' which is provided as cash. This cash must be spent by reinvesting in the same or a different fund. It can't be used to pay fees or withdraw. The effect is the same to you

    With some funds, such as the Woodford ones, they have a mixture of discounted classes and a loyalty bonus
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    Thanks, so actually HL are more competitive than I am lead to believe in some situations. Makes deciding where to put my ISA allowance this year very difficult!
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 11th Jul 18, 1:38 PM
    • 3,127 Posts
    • 2,461 Thanks
    Alexland
    Thanks, so actually HL are more competitive than I am lead to believe in some situations. Makes deciding where to put my ISA allowance this year very difficult!
    Originally posted by DennisTenus
    Yes but for a vanilla S&S ISA they are unikely to be overwhelmingly competitive compared to others.

    Start off by deciding what you want to invest in then decide which platform to use.

    Alex
    • DennisTenus
    • By DennisTenus 11th Jul 18, 3:36 PM
    • 245 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DennisTenus
    Yes but for a vanilla S&S ISA they are unikely to be overwhelmingly competitive compared to others.

    Start off by deciding what you want to invest in then decide which platform to use.

    Alex
    Originally posted by Alexland
    Mainly funds as I don't quite understand anything else and haven't invested in shares, ETFs etc.... definitely LTGE so can't use IWeb annoyingly although that didn't suit me because I like to buy as and when it drops... hence why I was considering CSD although their app and website is nowhere near as good as HL's
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 12th Jul 18, 7:16 AM
    • 8,246 Posts
    • 15,041 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Mainly funds as I don't quite understand anything else and haven't invested in shares, ETFs etc.... definitely LTGE so can't use IWeb annoyingly although that didn't suit me because I like to buy as and when it drops... hence why I was considering CSD although their app and website is nowhere near as good as HL's
    Originally posted by DennisTenus
    Maybe the app and website at CSD are not as good as HL's. I haven't been a user of CSD's site except out of idle curiosity for what funds they carry, and never used their app.

    However, presumably when you want to make a purchase at CSD of a fund that you want, you search for it and press buy for x,xxx. And when you want to reduce your holding, you search for the fund or click on it in your portfolio list and press sell for y,yyy. Most of the rest of the year, you simply own the fund and don't even need to load the website or app.

    To choose to use HL as your service provider because of a prettier website or an app with a few more features - I don't know what if any the real functional differences are, but I know the CSD app does allow fund trading these days and has a 4 star rating on the android store which is no worse than HL's - is an okay decision if the services are the same price.

    However, the services are not the same price; you're going to invest in funds and HL charge 0.2% more per year for holding funds. Closer to half a percent a year of your assets, than the quarter percent that CSD charge. Some would suggest it's somewhat irrational to wave goodbye to 0.2% of all your assets every single year just so that when you click buy or sell on the app or website, a few times a year, the interface is prettier. If you like the HL website for its research features and advertorial, you can still use those features without being a customer logged in. Although you can get (better) research features at Trustnet or Morningstar.

    As you know from some of the comments upthread, HL discount *some* funds, so that the total cost is in some cases no worse than buying them from a more 'normal priced' provider. But that only applies to particular funds that HL choose to promote and support, and will in most cases not cover the difference in platform fee, even if it does happen to cover the difference in the case of the LT fund.

    You would be irrational to restrict your investment choices to the particular funds that HL choose to promote from time to time. So it's inevitable that HL will end up more expensive overall, even if the discounts make some funds more palatable and the full 0.2% might not be felt on all of your portfolio, only part of it.

    Remember that an extra 0.2% a year on 50k holding is 100. After a decade, that's a thousand quid, even assuming no growth at all in the value of your assets. Could you do something better with a thousand quid that makes up for having to use a slightly less pretty smartphone app?

    Maybe you don't have 50k+ invested - but presumably you aspire for your investments to grow. Using the more expensive provider at an extra 0.2% a year, it's like every tenner you invest really costs you 10.20 in the first year... and you're throwing a further 20p in the bin each and every year on every tenner's worth of value you hold for that respective year.
    • DennisTenus
    • By DennisTenus 12th Jul 18, 3:00 PM
    • 245 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DennisTenus
    Maybe the app and website at CSD are not as good as HL's. I haven't been a user of CSD's site except out of idle curiosity for what funds they carry, and never used their app.

    However, presumably when you want to make a purchase at CSD of a fund that you want, you search for it and press buy for x,xxx. And when you want to reduce your holding, you search for the fund or click on it in your portfolio list and press sell for y,yyy. Most of the rest of the year, you simply own the fund and don't even need to load the website or app.

    To choose to use HL as your service provider because of a prettier website or an app with a few more features - I don't know what if any the real functional differences are, but I know the CSD app does allow fund trading these days and has a 4 star rating on the android store which is no worse than HL's - is an okay decision if the services are the same price.

    However, the services are not the same price; you're going to invest in funds and HL charge 0.2% more per year for holding funds. Closer to half a percent a year of your assets, than the quarter percent that CSD charge. Some would suggest it's somewhat irrational to wave goodbye to 0.2% of all your assets every single year just so that when you click buy or sell on the app or website, a few times a year, the interface is prettier. If you like the HL website for its research features and advertorial, you can still use those features without being a customer logged in. Although you can get (better) research features at Trustnet or Morningstar.

    As you know from some of the comments upthread, HL discount *some* funds, so that the total cost is in some cases no worse than buying them from a more 'normal priced' provider. But that only applies to particular funds that HL choose to promote and support, and will in most cases not cover the difference in platform fee, even if it does happen to cover the difference in the case of the LT fund.

    You would be irrational to restrict your investment choices to the particular funds that HL choose to promote from time to time. So it's inevitable that HL will end up more expensive overall, even if the discounts make some funds more palatable and the full 0.2% might not be felt on all of your portfolio, only part of it.

    Remember that an extra 0.2% a year on 50k holding is 100. After a decade, that's a thousand quid, even assuming no growth at all in the value of your assets. Could you do something better with a thousand quid that makes up for having to use a slightly less pretty smartphone app?

    Maybe you don't have 50k+ invested - but presumably you aspire for your investments to grow. Using the more expensive provider at an extra 0.2% a year, it's like every tenner you invest really costs you 10.20 in the first year... and you're throwing a further 20p in the bin each and every year on every tenner's worth of value you hold for that respective year.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Ok couple of things on this...

    1) HL's site and app isn't just nicer. Thats not what i meant. it's actually usable. For example, in the app when you try to look at fund's performance graph it's so small you can hardly make it out and can't change the scale or zoom in. Other things are not clear or easy to use either.

    2) As i've already said, i don't buy into a fund then forget about it and not look or touch it for years... I usually buy more when it drops. I have been buying in HL app on average once a week at least. This is also to drip feed in, which is recommended by many.

    3) I never said I was definitely going to put this years ISA allowance in HL again. It's not irrational when HL's functionality is 100 times better and easier and also there is the additional overhead of using another provider, site, login details etc etc. So not a like for like comparison.

    4) The discounts in a lot of funds make a big difference and make that difference in cost between HL and CSD very small. Yes I know it's still potentially throwing (a small amount of) money away as you put it.

    5) I note that CSD also has some crazy limitation of 500 minimum for a fund you don't own and then after that a minimum of 100. I don't want to be limited in that way. I may only want to invest a small amount (100) and see how it goes before adding more. I did this with Woodford and very pleased I only wasted 100 with him.

    6) Not sure if true but some people have reported when adding money to CSD takes 24 hours not instant like HL. Again, don't want to be limited in that way either.

    7) Obviously I have kept costs in mind and have a much much much larger ISA with IWeb. If I was stupid and irrational like you have suggested I am I would have transferred it all to HL and be paying dearly.

    8) A 4 star rating on the android store means nothing. A lot of reviews and ratings on there for all types of app are out of date and from people who don't know how to use them. Same can be said for reviews on Amazon, which we all know many of which are fake.

    So thank you for your input but instead of being negative why don't you suggest what would be a better option for me instead of HL...

    I mainly invest in active and index funds (at the moment anyway)
    I would like the provider to have usable Android app which can support buying and selling of funds
    I regularly buy into funds as and when (once a week on average I would say) sometimes only 100 here and there too

    There isn't actually that many options that fit my requirements whether you agree with them or not.
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