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  • FIRST POST
    • digitalfield
    • By digitalfield 4th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 2Thanks
    digitalfield
    WING PCN on behalf of Greenwich Council!
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    WING PCN on behalf of Greenwich Council! 4th Jul 18 at 2:39 PM
    Hello all!

    So today driver got a parking charge notice in the residential car park where driver lives. Never use to have the nasty little creeps from Wing parking enforcement patrolling the car park until recently as the car park use to be free and not enforced.

    Driver was parked in the car park, with permit clearly displayed in the window. Reason for ticket is "parking in no parking area", but drivers car was not obstructing anything and was parked inside the car park just not in one of the outlined bays. There are no marked bays at the end of the road and on the side of the street and cars were parked here and did not get a pentalty charge notice. Surely this is flawed signage as the bays are only in the car park not at the end of the road and the side of the road where the rules still apparently apply.

    I would like to know if driver should ignore or what drivers best options are? I know this is a private company but they seem to be working on behalf of the council so not sure what the best option is? Appeal/POPLA/ignore?
    Last edited by digitalfield; 04-07-2018 at 3:03 PM.
Page 1
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 4th Jul 18, 2:53 PM
    • 2,262 Posts
    • 3,035 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 2:53 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 2:53 PM
    Is the property and/or car park council owned
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jul 18, 3:35 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:35 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:35 PM
    I would like to know if driver should ignore or what drivers best options are? I know this is a private company but they seem to be working on behalf of the council so not sure what the best option is? Appeal/POPLA/ignore?
    Best to search the forum for WING as your keyword (NOT THE WORD 'PARKING'!) and read threads from people who've already appealed as keeper, and won at POPLA.

    Wing are different because:

    - they have a 3 stage appeal, so be ready for the pointless stage 2

    - they operate for Councils on 'not relevant land'

    So the keeper appeals as per the NEWBIES thread, on day 26, then repeats the same appeal at round 2 to the Council, then wins at POPLA based on 'no keeper liability possible - not relevant land'.

    Read some other Wing threads and see if I am not right!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • digitalfield
    • By digitalfield 4th Jul 18, 3:46 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    digitalfield
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:46 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:46 PM
    Thank you for the response Coupon-mad - I will have a dig around the forum.


    Is it wise to leave it until day 26 to file a appeal? is thats what you meant? I didn't know if appealing was a wise thing to do because isn't that acknowleding that I am the owner of the vehicle with my name and address. It states I can appeal at wingparking/appeals online or via post. I am unsure how to go about appealing via POPLA.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 4th Jul 18, 3:58 PM
    • 37,393 Posts
    • 84,266 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:58 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:58 PM
    Thank you for the response Coupon-mad - I will have a dig around the forum.


    Is it wise to leave it until day 26 to file a appeal? is thats what you meant? I didn't know if appealing was a wise thing to do because isn't that acknowleding that I am the owner of the vehicle with my name and address. It states I can appeal at wingparking/appeals online or via post. I am unsure how to go about appealing via POPLA.
    Originally posted by digitalfield
    If there was a windscreen PCN then the keeper appeals around day 26. The NEWBIES explains why.

    Yes it is wise for The Keeper to appeal. The owner, who is a completely different person is not known to the scammers as the DVLA do not hold that information. The same applies to The Driver, whose identity must not be revealed.

    Of course The Keeper puts their name and address in the appeal, along with the PCN number.

    You need to appeal to Wing first, then the council, then PoPLA. You can't do the latter without doing the former because you won't get a PoPLA code until the scammers have rejected the initial appeal from The Keeper.
    Appeal online and take a screenshot of the submission.

    If in doubt, go back and read the NEWBIES again.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • digitalfield
    • By digitalfield 4th Jul 18, 4:14 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    digitalfield
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:14 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:14 PM
    If there was a windscreen PCN then the keeper appeals around day 26. The NEWBIES explains why.

    Yes it is wise for The Keeper to appeal. The owner, who is a completely different person is not known to the scammers as the DVLA do not hold that information. The same applies to The Driver, whose identity must not be revealed.

    Of course The Keeper puts their name and address in the appeal, along with the PCN number.

    You need to appeal to Wing first, then the council, then PoPLA. You can't do the latter without doing the former because you won't get a PoPLA code until the scammers have rejected the initial appeal from The Keeper.
    Appeal online and take a screenshot of the submission.

    If in doubt, go back and read the NEWBIES again.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake

    Thank you Fruitcake for the reply. So suggestions so far have suggested going down this "no keeper liability possible - not relevant land" route.


    Can you see from the pictures the discrepancy of the marked bays and non marked bays with cars parked and some getting tickets and others not. Also the fact that it states all cars must be parked in marked bays yet the road has no bays and the end of the road has no bays.


    Appealing straight to Wing first requires me to give my name and address? What would be my appeal if not mentioning the marked bays issue and going down the "no keeper liability possible - not relevant land" route.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Jul 18, 4:17 PM
    • 37,275 Posts
    • 21,442 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #7
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:17 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:17 PM
    You must give your name and address!


    You are appealing in line with the advice in the FAQ. Use the template appeal
    • digitalfield
    • By digitalfield 4th Jul 18, 4:31 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    digitalfield
    • #8
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:31 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:31 PM
    Ok so I appeal at day 26 to not give them enough time sending the NTK with the standard template below, I assume appeal online at wingparking/appeals with my correct details stating I am the keeper of the vehicle. Do I not add any information in the appeal about the incorrect non marked bays? or keep it as simple as it states on the newbies sticky. Am I likely to win this 100% if following this process?



    Re PCN number:

    I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

    Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).

    I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed unanimously: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.

    Formal note:

    Service of any rejection letter/POPLA code and/or legal documents by email is expressly disallowed. All responses to me from this point on, must be made by post. Regardless of any MCOL online/email system, service of any court claim must only be made by first class post to the latest address provided by me.

    Yours faithfully,
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 4th Jul 18, 4:34 PM
    • 37,393 Posts
    • 84,266 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:34 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:34 PM
    Just send the template from the NEWBIES exactly as it is. Save everything else for PoPLA.

    There are no guarantees, but the process advised on MSE is I believe the best there is around, and the best chance you have of seeing the scammers off.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 04-07-2018 at 4:37 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 4th Jul 18, 4:40 PM
    • 37,393 Posts
    • 84,266 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    You should take down your images and edit out ALL personal data before reposting.
    You shouldn't be showing other people's VRNs either.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jul 18, 4:44 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ok so I appeal at day 26 to not give them enough time sending the NTK with the standard template below, I assume appeal online at wingparking/appeals with my correct details stating I am the keeper of the vehicle.
    Yes.

    Do I not add any information in the appeal about the incorrect non marked bays?
    No.

    or keep it as simple as it states on the newbies sticky.
    Yes, then repeat at second stage to the Council or Housing Association.

    Am I likely to win this 100% if following this process?
    Yes. I'll eat my BHA scarf if you lose at POPLA, as long as the driver is NOT implied by throwing in unnecessary words about what happened.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • digitalfield
    • By digitalfield 4th Jul 18, 4:50 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    digitalfield
    Pictures have been editted.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Jul 18, 4:56 PM
    • 37,275 Posts
    • 21,442 Thanks
    Quentin
    Check your editing again or take the pictures down altogether - haven't been through all of them, but you have left unique ref no on display
    • digitalfield
    • By digitalfield 4th Jul 18, 5:03 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    digitalfield
    Should be all fixed now!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jul 18, 5:46 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    We don't even need them; all Wing cases really are the same - 100% winnable.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Jul 18, 5:50 PM
    • 37,275 Posts
    • 21,442 Thanks
    Quentin
    Should be all fixed now!
    Originally posted by digitalfield
    No. (Still identifiable info on show)


    Maybe just take them all down - no need for them!
    • digitalfield
    • By digitalfield 4th Jul 18, 5:53 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    digitalfield
    So just to be totally clear. I appeal at day 26 online via wingparking. Then they respond to me and send me to Greenwich council to appeal again? I send Greenwich council the exact same template letter correct? Then Greenwich council or Wing give me a POPLA code and I appeal with them? is that the 3 step process or am I missing anything here?


    When appealing at POPLA do I go into details about the marked bays etc or again keep the template letter? Sorry for all the questions still a little unsure how this plays out.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Jul 18, 5:58 PM
    • 37,275 Posts
    • 21,442 Thanks
    Quentin
    All explained to you in #6 above!


    A popla appeal is different to your initial appeals! See #3 in the FAQ


    Have you read up on other wing threads as advised??
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jul 18, 5:59 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You are not missing anything. That is all that you need to do and it's easy!

    At POPLA stage you do NOT mention bays, but neither do you use the short template. POPLA stage is fully covered with longer template points, in the third post of the sticky.

    Your main point at POPLA stage will be 'no Notice to Keeper was served' because it won't be! And 'not relevant land' no keeper liability possible.

    Then the usual other POPLA template points you've found already when you searched the forum for WING as your keyword. Search 'WING POPLA no keeper liability' if you want to really narrow down some threads like yours.

    Just get the mindset that you 'must talk about the bays' out of your head!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 4th Jul 18, 6:09 PM
    • 2,262 Posts
    • 3,035 Thanks
    NeilCr

    Just get the mindset that you 'must talk about the bays' out of your head!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    And, also, "it's not fair that I got ticketed and they didn't"
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