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  • FIRST POST
    • danrv
    • By danrv 4th Jul 18, 11:59 AM
    • 38Posts
    • 5Thanks
    danrv
    Old Economy 10 system help
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 18, 11:59 AM
    Old Economy 10 system help 4th Jul 18 at 11:59 AM
    Hi
    I have just moved into a 3 bed semi detached property which has an electric warm air ducted heating system on Economy 10.
    Its from the 1970s and probably quite efficient but am thinking that NOBODY would be running anything like this these days.
    The Unidare 10Kw R10 unit is huge (H130cm W60cm) weighs 75kg, has its own cupboard and is wired into the E10 timer. The off peak times are 10.00pm-8.00am BST which makes sense for this type of storage heater as it doesnt need a top up in the evening.
    Water heating is seperate immersion tank which I could have timed to operate off peak.

    I would like to update to a more modern system but options are limited. No mains gas and quite a small garden for oil tank.
    Heat pump/wet system worth considering but not sure how hot it would heat the water in really cold weather.
    I dont need to heat the whole house, maybe one or two rooms at a time. Routine probably does suit storage heating more than electric rads but central storage units such as this are no longer made. Storage heaters/tariffs do seem to be gradually on the way out too.

    Theres no shortage of electric rads available and this would be an easy install. I have done extensive reading on these and they would be neat, individually controllable via WiFi with no maintenance costs. Would need to switch to standard tariff.
    Only downside I can see is high running cost.
    Sort of stuck really.
    Last edited by danrv; 04-07-2018 at 12:43 PM.
Page 1
    • jk0
    • By jk0 4th Jul 18, 12:26 PM
    • 2,529 Posts
    • 25,637 Thanks
    jk0
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 12:26 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 12:26 PM
    I believe those old electricaire systems have a similar energy rating to a modern Quantum system costing thousands.

    Keep it IIWY.
    • danrv
    • By danrv 4th Jul 18, 1:10 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 1:10 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 1:10 PM
    Thanks, Yes, I quite believe that about the Quantum storage heaters.
    Installing a bunch of those would probably work out a similar cost to an oil/rads system.
    It states theyre only for Economy 7 but my Economy 10 setup is not much different really.

    Could keep the Electricaire. Thats what electricians and plumbers have advised.
    But it looks dated, is dated and heaven knows whats in it, including the ducting.
    When everything these days is being modernized and going smart, I feel most people would rip it out in the first instance.

    I think Iíve gone down all available electric heating routes now, even a DIY HRV system using the existing ducting so just need to decide.
    Have had two quotes for German electric radiators, one rather over the top and another a quarter of that.
    Would need to do some sums to see how these would work out.
    Last edited by danrv; 04-07-2018 at 3:29 PM.
    • jk0
    • By jk0 4th Jul 18, 3:59 PM
    • 2,529 Posts
    • 25,637 Thanks
    jk0
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:59 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 18, 3:59 PM
    Oh, well don't install those German electric radiators, unless you like chucking money away.

    Poor pensioners are always coming here to tell us they've been duped into buying them, and they are costing a fortune to run.

    Surely most of the electricaire system is in a cupboard somewhere, isn't it? Therefore who cares if it's old fashioned.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 4th Jul 18, 4:16 PM
    • 19,576 Posts
    • 13,777 Thanks
    molerat
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:16 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:16 PM
    It does not matter if you have E10 or E7, the heating will be connected to the off peak exactly as it is now. Are you sure your 10 hours is in one block as that is unusual as they are normally based 3 off peak periods, evening, night and afternoon.
    Last edited by molerat; 04-07-2018 at 4:25 PM.
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    • molerat
    • By molerat 4th Jul 18, 4:24 PM
    • 19,576 Posts
    • 13,777 Thanks
    molerat
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:24 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 18, 4:24 PM
    Storage heaters/tariffs do seem to be gradually on the way out too.
    Originally posted by danrv
    That has come up a couple of times lately and seems to have been invented by those with a vested interest in selling you these fancy non-storage heaters, I wonder why they would tell you that



    Only downside I can see is high running cost.
    Originally posted by danrv
    You failed to insert the word "very" in that statement.
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    • macman
    • By macman 4th Jul 18, 5:13 PM
    • 42,788 Posts
    • 18,035 Thanks
    macman
    • #7
    • 4th Jul 18, 5:13 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Jul 18, 5:13 PM
    Conversion to E7 and NSH's is the most ecomomic solution. Install electric rads (whether 'normal' ones, or German ones filled with magic custard or Kryptonite), and you will pretty much triple your heating costs.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • danrv
    • By danrv 4th Jul 18, 7:00 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    • #8
    • 4th Jul 18, 7:00 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Jul 18, 7:00 PM
    Surely most of the electricaire system is in a cupboard somewhere, isn't it? Therefore who cares if it's old fashioned.
    Originally posted by jk0
    Yes, in a cupboard completely out of sight. Thatís not really a problem but Iím concerned about
    hazerdous materials in the unit and under some tape around the galvanised steel ducting in the cupboard.
    • danrv
    • By danrv 4th Jul 18, 7:35 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    • #9
    • 4th Jul 18, 7:35 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Jul 18, 7:35 PM
    Thanks for the replies.
    General view then is that electric rads are very expensive to run. Had an idea this may be the case but
    its difficult to predict just how much they would cost to run.
    Ive read so much into this and thought that as you have control over each one, set thermostat, new LOT20 regs for smart operation, cost to run wouldnt be too bad.
    Ive had a quote for 1x2k, 3x1.3k and 2x650w rads with WiFi hub.
    I suppose Ive been drawn in to these by all the positive and assuming genuine reviews. Would like to
    hear from some happy users.
    Id go modern storage heaters if there was more choice. Why only Dimplex? Plus I cant believe how heavy they are (around 100kg).
    The Electriaire I have is 75kg.

    Maybe Ill just dust it down and see how it goes over winter.
    Last edited by danrv; 04-07-2018 at 7:37 PM.
    • danrv
    • By danrv 4th Jul 18, 7:43 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    Are you sure your 10 hours is in one block as that is unusual as they are normally based 3 off peak periods, evening, night and afternoon.
    Originally posted by molerat
    Yes. Had a call from Eon after enquiring and my off peak times are:
    10.00pm - 8am BST
    9.00pm - 7am GMT
    • jk0
    • By jk0 4th Jul 18, 11:01 PM
    • 2,529 Posts
    • 25,637 Thanks
    jk0
    Maybe Ill just dust it down and see how it goes over winter.
    Originally posted by danrv
    Yes, do that. Presumably you could unscrew the outlet grills and hoover/mop out the inside as long as the power is dead?
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 5th Jul 18, 8:51 AM
    • 3,893 Posts
    • 2,452 Thanks
    matelodave
    Almost anything you do will cost you a lot of money which means that you'd have to get a solution which would save a lot of money and I doubt that there is one.

    The best idea would be to try it out over a winter, making sure that you monitor your consumption - read the meters weekly and record it on a spreadsheet so you've got some idea of how much it's all using. You may well find that it's not as expensive to run as you think, especially if you get the controls adjusted correctly.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • danrv
    • By danrv 5th Jul 18, 9:24 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    Thanks for the replies.
    General view then is that electric rads are very expensive to run. Had an idea this may be the case but
    its difficult to predict just how much they would cost to run.
    Ive read so much into this and thought that as you have control over each one, set thermostat, new LOT20 regs for smart operation, cost to run wouldnt be too bad.
    Ive had a quote for 1x2k, 3x1.3k and 2x650w rads with WiFi hub.
    I suppose Ive been drawn in to these by all the positive and assuming genuine reviews. Would like to
    hear from some happy users.
    Id go modern storage heaters if there was more choice. Why only Dimplex? Plus I cant believe how heavy they are (around 100kg).
    The Electriaire I have is 75kg.

    Maybe Ill just dust it down and see how it goes over winter.
    Originally posted by danrv
    Yes, do that. Presumably you could unscrew the outlet grills and hoover/mop out the inside as long as the power is dead?
    Originally posted by jk0
    Thanks, good idea. The vents have been painted over but I can unscrew and remove the grills.
    • danrv
    • By danrv 5th Jul 18, 10:01 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    The best idea would be to try it out over a winter, making sure that you monitor your consumption - read the meters weekly and record it on a spreadsheet so you've got some idea of how much it's all using. You may well find that it's not as expensive to run as you think, especially if you get the controls adjusted correctly.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Ta, will do that. Iím assuming you mean with my current warm air system rather than anything new.
    As far as electric heating goes, it possibly is quite efficient and there may not be anything available thatís cheaper to run. Itís just old and Iím trying to modernize my house.
    Iíve been encouraged by posts like Ď I replaced my old storage heaters with these new electric rads and the difference is night and dayí.
    Iíve yet to see any long term running cost calculations though.
    • ian103
    • By ian103 5th Jul 18, 10:24 AM
    • 860 Posts
    • 379 Thanks
    ian103
    danrv, if the storage heaters were suitable for our house we'd stick with them. we had them on our first 2 houses and they were really good and suited us.



    the only reason we are looking to change is that we are in an exposed location with a draughty underfloor void with undersized heaters, when we looked at upsizing them we discovered that traditional storage heaters are no longer made (you can still get some old stock if you can find it) and they have been replaced by LOT20 heaters, these contain a night time storage element and a daytime top up, this day time top up made us really wary as this will be on daytime electric and could cost a significant amount to run.


    i'm sure the new heaters will be very economic to use in a modern well sealed house with great thermal properties, unfortunately i'm not convinced they'd work for us.


    we did look at a panel heater for the study and looked at one of the fischer style heaters, they were expensive to buy and other than its got a digital stat and control couldnt see what you got over a £100 panel heater or for than matter a £20 convector heater, maybe it looks neater?
    • coffeehound
    • By coffeehound 5th Jul 18, 10:34 AM
    • 2,020 Posts
    • 3,165 Thanks
    coffeehound
    Yes. Had a call from Eon after enquiring and my off peak times are:
    10.00pm - 8am BST
    9.00pm - 7am GMT
    Originally posted by danrv
    Unfortunately the suppliers can't be trusted to give you the operating times. It would be best to confirm the Economy 10 times yourself from your meter. You need to be certain that the heating is running only during the cheap rate.

    Does the meter have an indicator light or similar to show you when it is on the cheap rate? If you could post photos here of your meter and any timer controls, that would help.
    • danrv
    • By danrv 5th Jul 18, 11:36 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    Unfortunately the suppliers can't be trusted to give you the operating times. It would be best to confirm the Economy 10 times yourself from your meter. You need to be certain that the heating is running only during the cheap rate.

    Does the meter have an indicator light or similar to show you when it is on the cheap rate? If you could post photos here of your meter and any timer controls, that would help.
    Originally posted by coffeehound
    Canít find how to upload pic.
    • danrv
    • By danrv 5th Jul 18, 11:51 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    traditional storage heaters are no longer made (you can still get some old stock if you can find it) and they have been replaced by LOT20 heaters, these contain a night time storage element and a daytime top up
    Originally posted by ian103
    I thought LOT20 heaters were just an updated electric radiator with things like open window sensing and adaptive start technology to meet the new LOT20 regulations.
    Only ones I know of with night time storage are the Quantum storage heaters.

    I have loft insulation but not sure about wall. Its tradition brick though and if could get economical use from new LOT20 heaters, I wouldnt hesitate.
    Last edited by danrv; 05-07-2018 at 12:01 PM.
    • ian103
    • By ian103 5th Jul 18, 12:41 PM
    • 860 Posts
    • 379 Thanks
    ian103
    Danrv try Elnur. (Ecombi HHR high heat retention range and Ecombi SSH range of smart storage heaters) Our local suppliers stocks these and they are significantly cheaper than others. Im guessing others will follow.
    • danrv
    • By danrv 6th Jul 18, 11:00 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    danrv
    Does the meter have an indicator light or similar to show you when it is on the cheap rate? If you could post photos here of your meter and any timer controls, that would help.
    Originally posted by coffeehound


    The meter alternates between low/normal/total. Theres also a red light that flashes occasionally.
    Im assuming the brass arrow on the mechanical timer should indicate current time. If so its several hours out.
    Last edited by danrv; 06-07-2018 at 11:02 AM.
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