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  • FIRST POST
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 4th Jul 18, 11:57 AM
    • 19Posts
    • 8Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    McDonald's sign photo
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 18, 11:57 AM
    McDonald's sign photo 4th Jul 18 at 11:57 AM
    Hi, I'm currently getting together my popla appeal against MET parking services for the driver overstaying by 89 minutes at a McDonald's car park.
    I have been to the sight to look at the signage (as I was not the driver) and have taken pictures.
    I'm not sure if the signs comply with standards or not. Is it worth submitting pictures to poplar anyway or may I be shooting myself in the foot?
    Would it be detrimental for me to post it here for people to see?
    I would appreciate any advice. Thanks
Page 2
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 8th Jul 18, 7:42 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    No I haven't done anything on social media yet but I have contacted customer services and emailed the CEO which got me through to head office.
    They've asked for the weekend to review the situation and should be contacting me again tomorrow.
    • photome
    • By photome 8th Jul 18, 7:51 AM
    • 13,604 Posts
    • 9,100 Thanks
    photome
    Have you been back to the McDonald’s where you got the ticket to ask again as suggested.

    As most ( maybe all) McDonald’s are franchises it would be good to find out who the franchisee is and complain to them
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 8th Jul 18, 6:06 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    I haven't been back again to that McDonald's but am planning on going within the next few days.
    I've phoned and emailed customer services on a number of occasions and have managed to annoy them enough to get it escalated up to head office.
    They have told me they will investigate and get back to me in the next few days.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 8th Jul 18, 7:50 PM
    • 9,308 Posts
    • 12,240 Thanks
    beamerguy
    I haven't been back again to that McDonald's but am planning on going within the next few days.
    I've phoned and emailed customer services on a number of occasions and have managed to annoy them enough to get it escalated up to head office.
    They have told me they will investigate and get back to me in the next few days.
    Originally posted by mentalmumof4
    The problem McDonald's have is total disrespect for
    customers.
    They can cancel it ?

    If they don't, then it is your chance to warn others
    on social media about this outlet
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 9th Jul 18, 7:15 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    Yes I will certainly put it on social media for all to see!
    • interstellaflyer
    • By interstellaflyer 9th Jul 18, 8:11 AM
    • 1,736 Posts
    • 1,012 Thanks
    interstellaflyer
    The problem McDonald's have is total disrespect for
    customers.
    They can cancel it ?
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    The OP hasn't explained why whoever he/she is representing stayed at McDonalds for 1 min short of 3 hours, 90 mins McDonalds allow and 89 mins overstay, I'm not defending the parking cowboys but why should the manager be in any way sympathetic if there was no valid reason other than 3 hrs free parking?
    I hate football and do wish people wouldn't keep talking about it like it's the most important thing in the world
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Jul 18, 9:53 AM
    • 9,308 Posts
    • 12,240 Thanks
    beamerguy
    The OP hasn't explained why whoever he/she is representing stayed at McDonalds for 1 min short of 3 hours, 90 mins McDonalds allow and 89 mins overstay, I'm not defending the parking cowboys but why should the manager be in any way sympathetic if there was no valid reason other than 3 hrs free parking?
    Originally posted by interstellaflyer
    There has been a fair few problems about McDonald's and
    parking.

    More the question must be, why they employ cowboys.
    Like many companies they blame abuse ?
    There will always some abuse but that is small and no doubt
    the cowboys sell this factor to the retailer.
    Bit like a double glazing salesperson selling you something
    you don't need

    McDonald's using parking cowboys could well mean that
    a burger could be the most expensive in the UK

    Mums arrange parties at McD and with all those kids
    time flys by ....... McD's have not got good customer
    service worked out yet
    Last edited by beamerguy; 09-07-2018 at 10:08 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 9th Jul 18, 4:45 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    The reason for the driver overstaying was genuine human error. They believed that you mearly had to be a McDonald's customer - Which they were - but then didnt move the car nearer to one of the shops to visit some of the other places in the same retail park.
    They have done this many times before and never received a PCN and the signage is not that obvious so it has never been noticed.
    The parking all over the retail park is free so it wasn't for that purpose.
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 9th Jul 18, 4:53 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    I have had this email from McDonald's head office this morning:



    "As a company, putting in place enforcement within our car parks is only done after careful consideration and very much as a last resort. Primarily, we use parking measures to ensure there are spaces available for our customers!!!8217; vehicles, as well as to deter unwarranted or unreasonably prolonged usage of the facility.

    We can confirm this parking area is managed by an independent company who are responsible for monitoring the car park and taking details of registration numbers. The regulations and signs at the restaurant state the policy and the relevant charges.

    We trust you will appreciate that in order to maintain a consistent approach; we have to adhere to the guidelines in place. As such, in a situation such as a clear contravention of parking regulations, we are unable to deal with any specifics or cases on an individual basis. Suffice to say, if a customer contravenes the clearly displayed parking regulations, they will receive a ticket.! At this point, it may be best to contact the parking company directly to lodge an appeal.!!

    Thank you for contacting us and again for the opportunity to comment, and I am sorry we are not in a position to assist in this instance."

    So now I will continue with my popla appeal and also try to speak to a Manager at the restaurant again.
    I will also post on social media for good measure.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jul 18, 5:00 PM
    • 20,244 Posts
    • 31,939 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Suffice to say, if a customer contravenes the clearly displayed parking regulations, they will receive a ticket.
    I'd be tempted to respond by saying
    'Suffice to say, if a customer cannot be helped by your company, with which we have spent thousands of pounds, you will not be surprised to learn that you will receive no further income from us. Suffice to say that my family and I will be following a much healthier diet in future!

    So by backing your parking company over a £100 'fine', you have just cost your company thousands of pounds.'
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 09-07-2018 at 5:03 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 9th Jul 18, 5:15 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    Well worded - we can save £'s and lose lbs!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jul 18, 5:33 PM
    • 20,244 Posts
    • 31,939 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well worded - we can save £'s and lose lbs!
    Originally posted by mentalmumof4
    I like quoting back to them their clever-d!ck sentences. Suffice to say I did it this time, and with interest!
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 9th Jul 18, 6:35 PM
    • 3,812 Posts
    • 2,848 Thanks
    Tarambor
    But given the signs are many feet up a pole, how are you supposed to read the detailed wording describing the circumstances where the driver might be liable? There is a case for saying that it was not possible to read the detail due to the height of the signs and the size of the lettering.
    Originally posted by The Slithy Tove
    Stop and get out? If you can't read that sign stood near it you shouldn't be driving.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jul 18, 6:39 PM
    • 20,244 Posts
    • 31,939 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Stop and get out? If you can't read that sign stood near it you shouldn't be driving.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    How about the small print on this one when it's 8 feet up?



    Any good?
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Jul 18, 9:13 PM
    • 9,308 Posts
    • 12,240 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Stop and get out? If you can't read that sign stood near it you shouldn't be driving.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    Stop and get a ticket from a scammer.

    Just imagine, you are in a car park, eyes off the road
    looking at signs and a child runs in front of you

    If only life is as simple as you suggest .... if only
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Jul 18, 9:18 PM
    • 9,308 Posts
    • 12,240 Thanks
    beamerguy

    Thank you for contacting us and again for the opportunity to comment, and I am sorry we are not in a position to assist in this instance."

    So now I will continue with my popla appeal and also try to speak to a Manager at the restaurant again.
    I will also post on social media for good measure.
    Originally posted by mentalmumof4
    As I said earlier .....

    "McD's have not got good customer service worked out yet"


    Don't go to McD's again, it will be good for your wealth
    and health .....
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 25th Jul 18, 9:14 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    I have now been provided with the evidence pack MET have submitted to popla.
    The photos of the signage they have provided are generic and not specific to the car park the driver in this case was parked in. ( I can tell from the shops etc in the back ground)
    Where do I stand with this? Tomorrow I will also post on here the plan they have provided of where the signs are, a whole area not being covered.
    I would appreciate any tips on how to write comments, I have 5 more days to respond.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 25th Jul 18, 11:19 PM
    • 20,244 Posts
    • 31,939 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    The photos of the signage they have provided are generic and not specific to the car park the driver in this case was parked in. ( I can tell from the shops etc in the back ground)
    Where do I stand with this? T
    That's the type of rebuttal you carry out on every bit of their evidence that's not 'right', or you disagree with, or which is plain 'wrong'.

    Not rebutting any part of their evidence might be read by POPLA as you accepting it as being correct.

    While you rebut as above, be aware that you only have 2,000 characters to do it in (note - characters, not words), so you have to be brief, no waffley, leggy sentences. Use bullet points where possible.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Jul 18, 12:36 AM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,536 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Just write short bullet point comments on each piece of evidence you can rebut. No new evidence.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • mentalmumof4
    • By mentalmumof4 28th Jul 18, 2:11 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    mentalmumof4
    This is the "evidence" MET provided to POPLA;

    "On 20 May 2018 vehicle XXXXXX was recorded entering the car park and registering a
    stay of 179 minutes, 89 minutes longer than the 90 minute maximum permitted stay.
    Registered keeper details were requested from the DVLA and a parking charge notice
    was issued to the registered keeper.
    On 14 June 2018 we received an appeal from the registered keeper, Mrs XXXX, on
    the grounds that the signage in the car park is inadequate. She requested all the
    photographic evidence and data we had collected in relation to her vehicle and claimed
    that operate in disregard of GDPR and ICO rules.
    Having completed their investigation our appeals team wrote to the appellant explaining
    that the appeal had been rejected and why.
    In her appeal to POPLA Mrs XXXX raises sever grounds of appeal:
    1. We have not shown that the individual we are pursuing is the driver.
    As stated in Section C of our evidence pack, the registered keeper has not provided the
    name and serviceable address of the driver, thus we are pursuing the registered keeper
    under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA 2012). Please also find
    our Notice to Keeper in Section B of our evidence pack. We are confident that we have
    complied with the requirements of POFA 2012.
    2. Inadequate Signage.
    We are confident that there is a sufficient number of signa in place in this car park and
    the signs are prominently displayed and clearly state the terms and conditions of parking.
    In section E of our evidence pack we have included images of the signs in place and a
    site plan of the location. We have also included images of the signs in place taken at
    night in order to demonstrate that they remain visible in the hours of darkness. It
    remains the driver!!!8217;s responsibility to check the signs where they park and comply with
    the stated terms and conditions.
    3. No evidence of landowner authority.
    Please see the end of Section E of our evidence pack, where we have included evidence
    of our contract with the landowner. This contract grants us the authority to form
    contracts with motorists at this location and issue parking charge notices for contractual
    breach.
    4. Breach of the BPA Code of Practice and ICO Code of Practice.
    Whilst we note that this point of appeal is not relevant to the fact that the motorist failed
    to comply with the notified terms and conditions of parking for the sake of completeness
    we are confident that our signs meet the appropriate requirements of the Code of
    Practice and the ICO and are amended in line with the introduction of new legislation or
    amendments to the Code and ICO guidance from time to time. In this regard we note
    that the charge notice was issued prior to the introduction of GDPR and the Data
    Protection Act 2018.
    The terms and conditions of parking are clearly stated on the 20 signs that are
    prominently displayed at the entrance to and around the car park. These include that
    the car park is for the use of McDonald!!!8217;s customers whilst on the premises and that
    there is a maximum stay in the car park of 90 minutes. As the photographic evidence
    provided in Section E of our evidence pack demonstrates, Miss XXXX vehicle remained
    in the car park for longer than the maximum permitted stay. In light of the above we
    believe the charge notice was issued correctly and the appeal should be refused."

    "We believe we can pursue the registered keeper for payment of the charge notice as:
    1. The land on which the vehicle was parked was private land and falls within the
    definition of relevant land under Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act.
    2. The driver of the vehicle is required by virtue of a relevant obligation to pay parking
    charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on relevant land and the charges have
    not been paid in full.
    3. We have the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay
    the unpaid charges but are unable to take steps to enforce that requirement because
    we do not know the name and current address for service of the driver.
    4. We have given a notice to the keeper in accordance with paragraph 9 of Schedule 4
    of The Protection of Freedoms Act, this notice:
    a. Specifies the vehicle, the relevant land on whit it was parked and the period
    of parking to which the notice relates;
    b. Informs the keeper that the driver is required to pay the charges and they
    have not been paid in full;
    c. Describes the charges due, the circumstances and other facts that made
    them payable;
    d. Specifies the amount unpaid;
    e. States that we do not know the name and address of the driver and invites
    the keeper to either pay the charges or advise us of the name and address
    of the driver;
    f. Warns the keeper that if we after the specified time the charges are not paid
    in full and we still do not know the name and address of the driver we may
    (subject to having met all the criteria) have the right to recover the
    outstanding sums from the registered keeper;
    g. Informs the registered keeper of the prompt payment discount and
    arrangements for dispute resolution;
    h. Identifies ourselves as the creditor and specifies how to make to payment to
    us or correspond with us;
    i. Specifies the date of sending the notice;
    j. Specifies the Creditor.
    5. The notice contains appropriate evidence by way of date stamped photographs
    6. The notice was given in accordance with sub-paragraph 9(4), 11 and 12 in all relevant
    respects.
    7. The timetable of events is listed below:
    a. The contravention took place on 20 May 2018
    b. The registered keeper details were received from the DVLA 28 May 2018 and
    the Notice to Keeper was sent the same day.
    The full details of the Notice to Keeper can be viewed in Section B above.
    As the registered keeper has not provided us with the name and current address for
    service of the driver of the vehicle, we may pursue the registered keeper for payment
    of the outstanding parking charge notice."

    "MET Parking Services Ltd are contracted by McDonald!!!8217;s to ensure adherence to the
    terms and conditions of the car park. Our interest in the land arises from our
    obligation to perform our contractual duties by ensuring provision can be made for
    motorists to park and facilitate motorists to use the client!!!8217;s premises.
    The Judges who ruled on the ParkingEye v Beavis case considered this point and held
    that ParkingEye had contracted with the motorist as a principal and not as agent and
    the contract had been formed by way of the signage displayed at the site and the
    motorist parking his car on the site.
    We do not feel we have to provide a copy of an un-redacted contract between
    ourselves and our client as it contains information which is commercially sensitive and
    not relevant in this instance. It also extends to more than 20 pages and therefore the
    volume of redacted information will be significantly greater than the volume of unredacted
    and relevant information.
    We have however provided the letter of authority, the signature page and front sheet
    of the contract demonstrating it is the contract referred to in the letter of authority
    and the clause from the contract that demonstrates this is rolling contract and subsists
    until terminated.
    We note POPLA are often asked to consider whether the contract existed
    at the date of the contravention and as you can see from the extract from
    the contract held with McDonald!!!8217;s this agreement has a commencement
    date of 31 August 2010 as this was the date it was signed by the client and
    is agreed for an initial period of 9 months after which point it becomes an
    ongoing agreement with notice provisions for both parties. We can confirm
    that neither McDonald!!!8217;s nor MET Parking have applied the notice
    provisions, and therefore the agreement remains in place. Consequently
    we would expect POPLA to be satisfied that the contract provided
    adequately proves that MET Parking had sufficient authority to issue
    parking charges on the land, on the day of the contravention. This is also
    evidenced by the fact that McDonald!!!8217;s permitted MET Parking!!!8217;s parking
    enforcement signs to be prominently displayed on the site at that time and
    to this date."


    I am unable to post the images they provided as they are all part of the same pdf file but I will keep trying. There is a site map which shows an area not covered by signage and they have provided generic signs not particular to the car park in question.

    Any help on what I could put as comments would be gratefully received, I'm stuck on all but signage.
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