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    • Newbie1982
    • By Newbie1982 4th Jul 18, 11:56 AM
    • 14Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Newbie1982
    Incorrect Claim - Help needed
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 18, 11:56 AM
    Incorrect Claim - Help needed 4th Jul 18 at 11:56 AM
    I'll try to keep this as short as possible, I've made a huge mistake and could use some advise if anyone can help.

    I've been with my partner for nearly seven years, two years ago he sold his property and moved in with me. Up until them I had been claiming child & working tax based on my being single with two children. I had planned to end my claim but just never got round to it. We had a fall out and parted company a couple of weeks ago, during an argument I ended my claim saying my partner had moved in. After he moved out I started a new claim. My partner was never on the electrical register at my house but had his car insurance bank, work, ect at my address. A few people have been gettign involved in our break up and I've worried some one is going report me for claiming. what are my options?
Page 2
    • Morglin
    • By Morglin 5th Jul 18, 8:04 AM
    • 14,657 Posts
    • 26,967 Thanks
    Morglin
    So why haven't they caught me earlier? My ex was living here, had bank accounts and credit cards here ect
    Originally posted by Newbie1982

    Because a lot of DWP and HMRC offices are in a hell of a mess, at the moment, and it often takes them ages to catch up with anything.

    But, there is no time limit where overpayments are concerned, so it would be better to get it sorted out.

    If your ex was claiming, as a single man, living elsewhere, then he will have a problem as well.

    I would contact the CAB or a local welfare rights, take all your paperwork, explain what's happened, and follow their advice.

    Lin
    You can tell a lot about a woman by her hands..........for instance, if they are placed around your throat, she's probably slightly upset.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 5th Jul 18, 8:06 AM
    • 5,122 Posts
    • 5,617 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    I don't know the rules around Tax Credits and what the description of a 'couple' is, but for some benefits you don't have to be living in the same property to be classed as a couple. There is a possibility, and I put it no stronger than that, that you should have been classed as a couple even before he moved in.
    • Newbie1982
    • By Newbie1982 5th Jul 18, 9:31 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Newbie1982
    If my partner gets in touch with HMRC and tells them he was living here what is the timeline, how soon will i hear from them?
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 5th Jul 18, 9:33 AM
    • 6,087 Posts
    • 12,938 Thanks
    marliepanda
    If my partner gets in touch with HMRC and tells them he was living here what is the timeline, how soon will i hear from them?
    Originally posted by Newbie1982
    There is no timeframe.

    Seriously, no one here is going to help someone commit fraud, nobody WANTS to help you. Either fess up or prepare for prosecution/Jeremy Kyle, whichever hits you first...

    Also, he is your ex , according to you, I'd make sure you get your story straight...
    • Newbie1982
    • By Newbie1982 5th Jul 18, 10:26 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Newbie1982
    Sorry about the mistype, he is my ex! I know I've dug my own hole, to be fair its half of the reason we split, he'd been asking me for a long time to cancel the claim so we could do things properly but for one reason and another I never got round to it, I eventually cancelled it a couple of weeks before he moved out as I thought he was going to tell someone. I'm in the position now where my finances are already stretched beyond reason, If I was to contact HMRC now and admit the mistake the money they would take back would cripple me. To be fair though and people wont like this, if the system is so great how hasn't it clocked that my partner was living with me for over 18 months ???
    • NYM
    • By NYM 5th Jul 18, 10:39 AM
    • 3,616 Posts
    • 6,676 Thanks
    NYM
    Sorry about the mistype, he is my ex! I know I've dug my own hole, to be fair its half of the reason we split, he'd been asking me for a long time to cancel the claim so we could do things properly but for one reason and another I never got round to it, I eventually cancelled it a couple of weeks before he moved out as I thought he was going to tell someone. I'm in the position now where my finances are already stretched beyond reason, If I was to contact HMRC now and admit the mistake the money they would take back would cripple me. To be fair though and people wont like this, if the system is so great how hasn't it clocked that my partner was living with me for over 18 months ???
    Originally posted by Newbie1982

    Make no mistake, they WILL take action to recover any overpayments even if it's not this year or maybe even next year, it will eventually catch you out. You must also be aware that it's not just the overpayment it's also the fraud involved and whatever action they choose to take in the future will not be something that you can avoid.

    If you contact them first, you might be able to arrange a repayment schedule that may not be as harsh.
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 5th Jul 18, 11:11 AM
    • 5,187 Posts
    • 3,385 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    Sorry about the mistype, he is my ex! I know I've dug my own hole, to be fair its half of the reason we split, he'd been asking me for a long time to cancel the claim so we could do things properly but for one reason and another I never got round to it, I eventually cancelled it a couple of weeks before he moved out as I thought he was going to tell someone. I'm in the position now where my finances are already stretched beyond reason, If I was to contact HMRC now and admit the mistake the money they would take back would cripple me. To be fair though and people wont like this, if the system is so great how hasn't it clocked that my partner was living with me for over 18 months ???
    Originally posted by Newbie1982
    Do you honest expect them to be able check the millions of claims there are for tax credits on a real time basis? How many people do you think HMRC employ?

    I honestly hope you get caught. It's people like you that cause honest people to have to jump through hoops to claim what they are entitled to.
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 5th Jul 18, 11:17 AM
    • 1,734 Posts
    • 3,660 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    Sorry about the mistype, he is my ex! I know I've dug my own hole, to be fair its half of the reason we split, he'd been asking me for a long time to cancel the claim so we could do things properly but for one reason and another I never got round to it, I eventually cancelled it a couple of weeks before he moved out as I thought he was going to tell someone. I'm in the position now where my finances are already stretched beyond reason, If I was to contact HMRC now and admit the mistake the money they would take back would cripple me. To be fair though and people wont like this, if the system is so great how hasn't it clocked that my partner was living with me for over 18 months ???
    Originally posted by Newbie1982
    Nobody is saying that the system is 'great'. If this gets as far as a prosecution, you may find that your 'ex' is called as a prosecution witness and it is likely to result in a finding of 'deliberate fraud'.

    Your attitude stinks IMO. You can make all the excuses you like but there is no doubt in my mind that you WILL be caught and will pay a very heavy price not only financially but a possible criminal conviction and you will only have yourself to blame.
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 5th Jul 18, 11:19 AM
    • 5,122 Posts
    • 5,617 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    If/when you get caught you won't be able to claim it was an oversight or that you didn't know. They will interview your ex and if he has any sense he won't dig a hole for himself by lying for you. If he tells them you broke up because you wouldn't inform HMRC of your change of circumstances, it's almost a slam dunk for a fraud charge. You need to wake up to the situation and act.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 5th Jul 18, 11:30 AM
    • 2,256 Posts
    • 2,633 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    I don't know the rules around Tax Credits and what the description of a 'couple' is, but for some benefits you don't have to be living in the same property to be There is a possibility, and I put it no stronger than that, that you should have been classed as a couple even before he moved in.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    I would put it more strongly than possible.
    Living together is just one of the tests HMRC apply.

    In normal circumstances HMRC would accept the claimant's word that moving in together marked a change of relationship that amounted to Living Together as Man and Wife.
    However, where the claimant has been found to be fraudulent by HMRC after investigation, HMRC are then very likely to go back further and (in the OP's case) seek to recover tax credits for longer than the two years. The onus will fall on the OP to show that she wasn't LTaMaW in the previous 5 years.


    I would think that the changes in TC status from single to couple, and then the very quick change back to single, would prompt HMRC to look carefully at the OP's case. The linked financial details at her address (easily found by way of a credit check) will be sufficient to trigger an overpayment demand.
    https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-to-deal-with-hmrc/dealing-with-mistake-and-fraud/

    https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-to-deal-with-hmrc/dealing-with-mistake-and-fraud/fraud/

    As others have said HMRC will notify fraud to DWP and the LA.
    So, if the OP has been claiming other benefits fraudulently she can expect to repay these benefits as well.

    The best advice for the OP is to tell HMRC of the fraudulent claim, and then the OP may wish to consider increasing her earned income, so that she can afford to survive whilst repaying the money fraudulently claimed.
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/make-money/
    http://www.lowbudgetliving.co.uk/
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 05-07-2018 at 11:33 AM.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 5th Jul 18, 12:01 PM
    • 2,256 Posts
    • 2,633 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    I honestly hope you get caught. It's people like you that cause honest people to have to jump through hoops to claim what they are entitled to.
    Originally posted by Darksparkle
    Quite.

    The OP has not just stolen money from tax-payers, she has contributed to the toxic attitude towards those disabled people who are reliant on benefits.

    The cheats and scroungers narrative, that can cause so much misery for genuine claimants.
    Those undergoing ESA and PIP re-assessments with conditions that won't improve, just because the government seeks to assuage voters who view all benefit claimants as "cheats".
    Taxpayers footing the huge bill for private companies such as ATOS etc, running flawed assessments.
    Those who fail their assessment and then face the stress of appealing.
    Those with a valid claim who don't claim (AA, etc) because of fear of being labelled a cheat.
    Etc, etc

    The OP should be thoroughly ashamed of herself. But I expect she will continue to make excuses and play the victim.
    " if the system is so great how hasn't it clocked that my partner was living with me for over 18 months ??? ..... I eventually cancelled it a couple of weeks before he moved out as I thought he was going to tell someone..."

    Words fail me.

    In reality though, benefit fraud is small (around 1%) .
    https://www.indy100.com/article/benefit-fraud-tax-dodging-paradise-papers-evasion-avoidance-billions-government-statistics-8056846
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 05-07-2018 at 4:58 PM.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 5th Jul 18, 12:18 PM
    • 2,996 Posts
    • 4,281 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Quite.

    The OP has not just stolen money from tax-payers, she has contributed to the toxic attitude towards those disabled people who are reliant on benefits.

    The cheats and scroungers narrative, that can cause so much misery for genuine claimants.
    Those undergoing ESA and PIP re-assessments with conditions that won't improve, just because the government seeks the assuage voters who view all benefit claimants as "cheats".
    Taxpayers footing the huge bill for private companies such as ATOS etc, running flawed assessments.
    Those who fail their assessment and then face the stress of appealing.
    Those with a valid claim who don't claim (AA, etc) because of fear of being labelled a cheat.
    Etc, etc

    The OP should be thoroughly ashamed of herself. But I expect she will continue to make excuses and play the victim.

    In reality though, benefit fraud is small (around 1%) .
    https://www.indy100.com/article/benefit-fraud-tax-dodging-paradise-papers-evasion-avoidance-billions-government-statistics-8056846
    Originally posted by Alice Holt

    That's still 2B per year that could be put to better use.
    • JessyRM
    • By JessyRM 5th Jul 18, 12:43 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    JessyRM
    OP you know what you need to do, Waiting around to be found out is not going to help you sleep at night. Call them up and explain the situation if you are in financial hardship get some support from one of the debt charities and be as honest as possible. It takes two minutes for someone to report benefit fraud online, your ex could do this at any moment if they haven't already.

    Benefit fraud is a serious crime, you have asked for advice and everyone here is telling you to admit the mistake and face the consequences.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 5th Jul 18, 1:57 PM
    • 7,786 Posts
    • 17,010 Thanks
    kingfisherblue
    Sorry about the mistype, he is my ex! I know I've dug my own hole, to be fair its half of the reason we split, he'd been asking me for a long time to cancel the claim so we could do things properly but for one reason and another I never got round to it, I eventually cancelled it a couple of weeks before he moved out as I thought he was going to tell someone. I'm in the position now where my finances are already stretched beyond reason, If I was to contact HMRC now and admit the mistake the money they would take back would cripple me. To be fair though and people wont like this, if the system is so great how hasn't it clocked that my partner was living with me for over 18 months ???
    Originally posted by Newbie1982

    Oh dear, it gets worse! From your OP, I assumed that he had mentioned it once, and that you just forgot to sort it out. From this post, it's obvious that you continued to claim despite knowing that you shouldn't. That's not an oversight, that's intentional. Therefore it is deliberate fraud. You should be ashamed of yourself.



    How do you have the audacity to come on MSE and ask for help, yet you clearly don't want to confess that you didn't cancel your claim when you know that you should?



    I hope that you are prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 5th Jul 18, 2:15 PM
    • 60,586 Posts
    • 43,204 Thanks
    soolin
    Sorry about the mistype, he is my ex! I know I've dug my own hole, to be fair its half of the reason we split, he'd been asking me for a long time to cancel the claim so we could do things properly but for one reason and another I never got round to it, I eventually cancelled it a couple of weeks before he moved out as I thought he was going to tell someone. I'm in the position now where my finances are already stretched beyond reason, If I was to contact HMRC now and admit the mistake the money they would take back would cripple me. To be fair though and people wont like this, if the system is so great how hasn't it clocked that my partner was living with me for over 18 months ???
    Originally posted by Newbie1982
    You are obviously looking for someone to sympathise with you and tell you it's Ok, but this is not the place. There are extremely knowledgeable people here (I do not count myself among them) who spend a lot of time and effort trying to get people their dues. Having a new poster come here and basically admit to committing fraud, and not only that but want some re assurance that fraud is Ok, is never going to go well.

    You have a chance to sort this out, ultimately if you don't this could get very nasty indeed, I don't think you understand the seriousness of your fraudulent behaviour. Sort this out while you can, yes you'll struggle for a while but that has to be better than being a criminal.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 5th Jul 18, 4:20 PM
    • 16,815 Posts
    • 41,504 Thanks
    FBaby
    In reality though, benefit fraud is small (around 1%) .
    But isn't that only counting when people have been prosecuted and proven to have committed fraud. Does it include OP for instance? After all, how can they count fraud cases that they don't know about? The unknown is the scale of the fraud.

    By the way OP, your title is misleading, it's not an incorrect claim but a fraudulent one.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 5th Jul 18, 4:22 PM
    • 6,087 Posts
    • 12,938 Thanks
    marliepanda
    But isn't that only counting when people have been prosecuted and proven to have committed fraud. Does it include OP for instance? After all, how can they count fraud cases that they don't know about? The unknown is the scale of the fraud.

    By the way OP, your title is misleading, it's not an incorrect claim but a fraudulent one.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Plus there's all the ones where they can'rt prove fraud but they ar found to be claiming when they shouldnt have been through a mistake, and pay back their 20k overpayments at 5 a week...
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 5th Jul 18, 5:04 PM
    • 2,256 Posts
    • 2,633 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Does it include OP for instance? ........By the way OP, your title is misleading, it's not an incorrect claim but a fraudulent one.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    It will soon, both the DWP & HMRC are getting much cleverer at detecting criminal activity.

    I suspect the OP has shot herself in the foot by shifting her claim from single to couple, and then back to single in a short space of time.

    Unless, of course, this is a wind up on behalf of the OP.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 5th Jul 18, 6:38 PM
    • 3,682 Posts
    • 10,038 Thanks
    LilElvis
    It will soon, both the DWP & HMRC are getting much cleverer at detecting criminal activity.

    I suspect the OP has shot herself in the foot by shifting her claim from single to couple, and then back to single in a short space of time.

    Unless, of course, this is a wind up on behalf of the OP.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    Not only cleverer but also more focused. Until recently my husband was a confidential informer for HMRC, though corporate tax evasion rather than benefit fraud, and they diligently gather data over the long term so that they know they have sufficient evidence to proceed before the suspect is brought in for questioning/ charging.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 5th Jul 18, 6:57 PM
    • 5,122 Posts
    • 5,617 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    Newvie1982 don't let the judgemental comments get to you! You're entitled to claim, they're just jelous and judgemental
    Originally posted by Need-sum-advice

    Please explain how somebody who has no entitlement to benefits following a change of circumstance where they were no longer single is still entitled to claim. I'm sure we'll all be fascinated by your logic.
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