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    • UKParliament
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    • By UKParliament Verified User verified user 4th Jul 18, 9:40 AM
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    UKParliament
    Universal credit: Frank Field MP wants to hear your experiences
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 18, 9:40 AM
    Universal credit: Frank Field MP wants to hear your experiences 4th Jul 18 at 9:40 AM

    Frank Field, MP for Birkenhead and Chair of the Work and Pensions Select Committee, is leading a Westminster Hall debate on universal credit and the use of food banks on Wednesday 11 July. He wants to hear your views and experiences.

    He would like to know:
    • What has been your experience of claiming universal credit?
    • What have been the best and worst features of universal credit?
    • How simple and manageable has it been to set up and manage your universal credit claim?
    • Do you feel as though universal credit has made you better or worse off?

    Your responses will help to inform his speech. Any information or opinions you provide may be used in a Parliamentary debate, which will be on the record and available on Parliament TV and Hansard. Please let us know if you do not want your username to be referred in either the briefing shared with Frank or in his speech.

    Please comment below with your experiences by 4pm on Tuesday 10 July.
    Official Organisation Representative
    I’m the official organisation rep for the House of Commons. I do not work for or represent the government. I am politically impartial and cannot comment on government policy. Find out more in DOT's Mission Statement.

    MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
Page 1
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 4th Jul 18, 9:26 PM
    • 1,189 Posts
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    fredandwilma
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 9:26 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 18, 9:26 PM
    I cannot believe you are asking, but i'll take the bait.

    Use of food banks? You don't live in the real world, do you?

    Sit in Westminster Hall with a 'free' lunch provided?

    You have no idea how Universal Credit affects a real and vulnerable sector of soceity.

    I am about to 'naturally' migrate to UC.

    Why am i putting myself through this? Ironically, for health reasons.

    At the moment we have found a possible 'loophole' to avoid claiming UC and staying on 'Legacy' Benefits. This is yet to be explored.

    What have been the best and worst features of UC?

    There are no best features. It's bad news all the way. UC is a 'household' benefit designed to 'encourage' people back in to or to stay in work, not a 'personal' benefit. What about the severely disabled who will never return to the workplace? Who need support with everyday living? The disability premiums received with ESA gave those people the financial support and 'independence' they require to 'survive'. There is no consideration or support for the 'severely' disabled claiming UC.

    Do you feel as though UC has made you better or worse off?

    I will definitely be worse off, somewhere in the region of £200 a month. It's hard to tell at the present moment. This financial assistance helps with the extra cost of being 'severely disabled'. I hate the word 'disabled', but one has to use a word? I hate the phrase 'severley disabled' but this is the terminology used. I have learnt to live life as it is now, within it's limitations, minute by minute. Any future plans which are made, may or may not happen.

    Feel free to join me on my UC journey. It's free.

    Also feel free to join me in a cardboard box on the street when my source of income comes to an end, (very soon).

    I already have a casework number with my MP and gradually, support from other organisations as they are concerned for my welfare whilst i wait for a first UC payment?

    However, that sort of support doesn't pay the basics required to exist on a daily basis, let alone the cost of being 'severely' disabled.

    Nor does any 'back payment' which may or may not arrive, at some point in the future.

    If you were in my position, how would you be feeling?

    You couldn't possibly know, but the stress is unimaginable.........................

    The government has promised no-one will be worse off when moved onto Universal Credit.

    The government has already broken it's promise with arguably, the most vulnerable sector of soceity.

    What was the point of this whole exercise if not to cut spending, which clearly, is being achieved?
    Last edited by fredandwilma; 05-07-2018 at 7:05 AM.
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • venison
    • By venison 4th Jul 18, 9:58 PM
    • 2,223 Posts
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    venison
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 9:58 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 18, 9:58 PM
    UC has been and will continue to be an unmitigated disaster.
    It has seen a massive rise in the use of foodbanks and will continue to see this.
    It penalises the sick and disabled.
    It does not encourage people into work, it bullies them into zero hour contracts.
    It has so far cost far more to implement than it has saved.
    The secretary of state for the DWP(I can't bring myself to type her name) has lied to parliament this week, and has only offered a half hearted apology which in itself contained half truths. She should resign.
    The legacy benefits weren't perfect BUT they were better than this shambles.
    Former Board Guide
    • UKParliament
      Verified User verified user
    • By UKParliament Verified User verified user 5th Jul 18, 9:36 AM
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    UKParliament
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:36 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:36 AM
    At 10.30am today, Frank Field MP will ask an urgent question in the House of Commons on Universal Credit.

    If an MP thinks there is an urgent matter that the government need to be questioned on, they can apply to the Speaker for an urgent question. If the Speaker agrees, a government minister must come to the House of Commons that day to explain what the government is doing on the issue raised. The minister will then usually take questions on the subject from MPs.

    You can watch the Urgent Question on Parliament TV from 10.30am.
    Official Organisation Representative
    I’m the official organisation rep for the House of Commons. I do not work for or represent the government. I am politically impartial and cannot comment on government policy. Find out more in DOT's Mission Statement.

    MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 5th Jul 18, 7:41 PM
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    fredandwilma
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 7:41 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 7:41 PM
    It's a comedy of apologies and accusations.

    And brainwashing.

    The government is going to make my life better by getting me back in to work and I will be £600 a year better off.

    The government is going to make my life better by getting me back in to work and I will be £600 a year better off.

    The government is going to make my life better by getting me back in to work and I will be £600 a year better off.....................

    There's no place like home

    There's no place like home

    There's no place like home

    There's no help for me, whatever will be will be
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • venison
    • By venison 5th Jul 18, 11:12 PM
    • 2,223 Posts
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    venison
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:12 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:12 PM
    Considering all the problems we have seen posted on here about UC the response to this is totally underwhelming.
    Former Board Guide
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 8th Jul 18, 8:38 AM
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    fredandwilma
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:38 AM
    Frank Field MP wants to hear your experiences
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:38 AM
    To reiterate, I know my own MP is 'putting pressure on the government' but with no clear answers forthcoming, I would like to highlight the points to be raised on Wednesday the 11th July:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/universal-credit-disabled-people-high-court-government-disabled-dwp-a8398241.html

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2018/June-2018/First-legal-challenge-against-Universal-Credit-fin

    The government's universal credit roll-out is unlawfully discriminating against people with disabilities by taking “essential benefits” from disabled claimants, the High Court has ruled.

    In a landmark judgment, the court ruled that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) unlawfully discriminated against two severely disabled men who both saw their benefits dramatically reduced when they claimed universal credit.

    Lawyers representing the men said the ruling showed that the new benefit system was “not working” for the disabled or other claimants, and urged the government to halt the roll-out and overhaul the system to meet peoples’ needs and not “condemn them to destitution”.

    The DWP last week committed the government to ensuring that no severely disabled person in receipt of the SDP will be made to move onto universal credit until transitional protection is in place and committing to compensating those like the claimants who have lost out.


    The two claimants, known only as TP and AR, had both previously been in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium (SDP) and Enhanced Disability Premium (EDP), which were specifically aimed at meeting the additional care needs of severely disabled people living alone with no carer.

    But they were required to make a claim for universal credit when they moved into new local authorities where the controversial new benefit was being rolled out. According to both the men, they were advised by DWP staff that their benefit entitlement would not change.

    Despite repeated assurances from the government that “no one will experience a reduction in the benefit they are receiving at the point of migration to universal credit where circumstances remain the same”, both men saw an immediate drop in their income of around £178 a month when they were moved over.

    When they asked for top up payments they were told that Government policy was that no such payments would be paid until July 2019 when managed migration would begin.
    The DWP last week committed the government to ensuring that no severely disabled person in receipt of the SDP will be made to move onto universal credit until transitional protection is in place and committing to compensating those like the claimants who have lost out.

    Despite this, following hand down of the judgment on Thursday, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has sought permission to appeal, maintaining that there was nothing unlawful with the way the claimants were treated.


    Their lawyer, Tessa Gregory from the human rights team at Leigh Day, told the Court: “Nothing about either of the claimants’ disability or care needs changed, they were simply unfortunate enough to need to move local authorities into a Universal Credit full service area.”

    The judge said the impact on the individuals was “clear”, and said the way they were transferred onto universal credit was “manifestly without reasonable foundation” and “failed to strike a fair balance”.

    Following the ruling, Ms Gregory said: “This is the first legal test of the roll out of Universal Credit and the system has been found to be unlawfully discriminating against some of society’s most vulnerable.

    “Whilst we welcome the Government’s commitment to ensuring that no one in our client’s position will now be moved onto Universal Credit until top up payments are in place, it comes too late as it cannot make up for the months of suffering and grinding poverty our clients and many others like them have already had to endure.

    Responding to the ruling, James Taylor, head of policy and public affairs at disability charity Scope, said: “The judge’s comments spell out what many disabled people tell us week in and week out – that the move to universal credit can have a detrimental effect on their lives.

    “Disability premiums are not a luxury. They play a crucial role in helping disabled people pay for essentials like food, clothing and bills. The needs of the people involved in this case haven’t changed, and yet they have lost more than £170 per month in support. This isn’t fair.

    "Until the Government fully addresses these issues, it will unfairly penalise disabled people for moving over to universal credit.”

    "Last week, the Secretary of State announced that we will be providing greater support for severely disabled people as they move onto universal credit. And we have gone even further, by providing an additional payment to those who have already moved onto the benefit.”

    As the DWP last week committed the government to ensuring that no severely disabled person in receipt of the SDP will be made to move onto universal credit until transitional protection is in place, what will happen to the 'Severely Disabled' transfering to Universal Credit in the here and now? Are they still having to transfer on to Universal Credit?

    Any transitional protection put in place will eventually be eroded away as essentially, the SDP and EDP payments which were available with Legacy Benefits, are eroded away over the course of time and cease to exist.

    We are talking about a very small minority of benefits claimants and the most 'vulnerable' in soceity, here.

    The Governments statement that no one will be worse off claiming Universal Credit, clearly doesn't apply.

    What 'safety net' is in place for 'Severely Disabled' claimants about to 'Naturally Migrate' to Universal Credit, in the here and now?........................
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 8th Jul 18, 8:48 AM
    • 12,469 Posts
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    fatbelly
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:48 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 18, 8:48 AM
    The legacy benefits weren't perfect BUT they were better than this shambles.
    Originally posted by venison
    All they lacked was a 'taper' for those with small earnings, instead of losing £1 for £1 after a £5 - £20 earnings exemption.

    That could have been brought in with a tweak to the existing system, at minimal cost, instead of the foreseeable national disaster that is UC
    • Feyfangirl
    • By Feyfangirl 8th Jul 18, 4:15 PM
    • 390 Posts
    • 7,056 Thanks
    Feyfangirl
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 4:15 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 18, 4:15 PM
    Currently signed off work with depression and anxiety for two months, really stressed out. On universal credit, my first payment is in the first week of August. I am desperate to try get a job before then, as simply cannot afford to not bring any income in as my family need the money.



    How I am supposed to "get better" and get ready for work with all the pressures that universal credit brings is truly beyond me
    "No one can change the past. The only thing we can do is strive to make up for our mistakes. Why must we make up for our mistakes, you ask? Because in so doing...we can find the way back to our path. And once we've found our path we can move on from our past mistakes toward a brighter future"

    Phoenix Wright in Ace Attorney Rise from the Ashes
    • huckster
    • By huckster 8th Jul 18, 5:04 PM
    • 3,282 Posts
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    huckster
    Currently signed off work with depression and anxiety for two months, really stressed out. On universal credit, my first payment is in the first week of August. I am desperate to try get a job before then, as simply cannot afford to not bring any income in as my family need the money.

    How I am supposed to "get better" and get ready for work with all the pressures that universal credit brings is truly beyond me
    Originally posted by Feyfangirl

    So have you applied for a new claim advance, so you have money while you wait for the first UC payment ?

    What extra pressures does UC apply to you, compared to legacy benefits or any work issues with your employers ?

    If you are signed off work, what help are your employers providing ?
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 9th Jul 18, 7:44 AM
    • 1,189 Posts
    • 1,627 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    Question for the parliamentary debate
    Will the law be passed, ensuring that no severely disabled person in receipt of the SDP will be made to move onto universal credit until transitional protection is in place, (those naturally migrating,) before the House of Commons breaks for their summer holidays on 24th July?
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • UKParliament
      Verified User verified user
    • By UKParliament Verified User verified user 9th Jul 18, 11:12 AM
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    UKParliament
    This debate is taking place in Westminster Hall. This is a general debate, and there will be no change to the law as a result of it. It is an opportunity for MPs to question the Government on their policy, in this case on Universal Credit. A government minister will attend and will have to respond to the points raised during the debate.

    You can find out more about Westminster Hall debates here.
    Official Organisation Representative
    I’m the official organisation rep for the House of Commons. I do not work for or represent the government. I am politically impartial and cannot comment on government policy. Find out more in DOT's Mission Statement.

    MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
    • Weary soul
    • By Weary soul 9th Jul 18, 11:19 AM
    • 263 Posts
    • 347 Thanks
    Weary soul
    The government NEVER listens. It's all just hot air blowing about that they never ever act upon. Right from It's inception the government were warned at how bad and cruel UC was and yet they chose to ignore it.

    When UC really starts to bite I think then people will really kick off, especially now working folk who thought the term 'benefit scum' just applied to the unemployed and sick/disabled and now they're being included into that 'happy band' in the eyes of the Tories. A party who imo you wouldn't trust organise a kids tea party let alone this country.
    “Lord Thomas of Gresford: My Lords, one of the three great universal lies is, “I am from the Government and I am here to help you”. ”
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 9th Jul 18, 11:16 PM
    • 5,477 Posts
    • 7,685 Thanks
    deannatrois
    I still don't understand how the government managed to push Universal Credit through in the beginning. Does everything that is supposed to bring savings just automatically get pushed through without an independent investigation as to whether those claims are true.

    Oops nieve head on. Of course they do. Warnings are disregarded and things that are reported to 'save' money actually cost more. And few people in government seem to care.

    Now the Audit Commission acknowledges a lot of the disaster that is UC, both to claimants and the Government (as it doesn't save money and doesn't work, even the software doesn't work), but says the changeover can't be reversed.

    I have no idea how I will cope when the changeover to UC occurs. How I will feed my son (both of us have disabiities), pay bills etc. Last time there was a changeover to benefits I was told there was a loan you could get to help while waiting for the change to go thru. Lost my application. So I just didn't eat. Tried to give what I had to my son who was then 5. And I am a diabetic (unstable) as well as having other challenges.

    Yep I dread UC. Its like a shadow hanging over every benefit claimant. I doubt I will ever work because of the challenges I have. I don't have a lot of choice. No government should be able to behave this irresponsibly.
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 10th Jul 18, 7:43 AM
    • 1,189 Posts
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    fredandwilma
    This debate is taking place in Westminster Hall. This is a general debate, and there will be no change to the law as a result of it.
    Originally posted by UKParliament
    I'm sure i read somewhere this was going to happen, however, I'm now too exhausted to find where i saw this.

    The government NEVER listens. It's all just hot air blowing about that they never ever act upon. Right from It's inception the government were warned at how bad and cruel UC was and yet they chose to ignore it.

    When UC really starts to bite I think then people will really kick off, especially now working folk who thought the term 'benefit scum' just applied to the unemployed and sick/disabled and now they're being included into that 'happy band' in the eyes of the Tories. A party who imo you wouldn't trust organise a kids tea party let alone this country.
    Originally posted by Weary soul
    This forum will be inundated with UC queries, they are already multiplying on this forum. However, the majority of claimants will be 'managed migration' with 'transitional protection' from July 2019.

    The majority of the 'problems' at the moment are with claimants who are unfortunate enough to be 'naturally' migrating? Should those claimants be stuck in a benefits trap which affects their quality of 'life' either way? Lose, lose, lose, situation.

    To reiterate my question for Frank Field to ask the government on their policy, tomorrow:

    What safety net is in place for severely disabled claimants currently in receipt of the EDP and SDP on legacy benefits, naturally migrating to Universal Credit, presumably still without 'transitional protection,' right now?

    Will i still have my own legal battle to pursue?

    I'm done with this thread, now. It is clearly a waste of time and energy.

    No amount of debate is clearly not going to resolve the very real impact of the change to UC for severely disabled claimants, for one.

    I now need to focus on trying to survive this nightmare. Hopefully, I won't end up living in a cardboard box on the street, (a very real possibility,) which i definitely won't survive, with my health conditions.
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 10th Jul 18, 8:18 AM
    • 15,783 Posts
    • 22,465 Thanks
    antrobus
    ....

    Now the Audit Commission acknowledges a lot of the disaster that is UC, both to claimants and the Government (as it doesn't save money and doesn't work, even the software doesn't work), but says the changeover can't be reversed....
    Originally posted by deannatrois
    The Audit Commission was abolished in 2015. I think you mean the National Audit Office.

    https://www.nao.org.uk/report/rolling-out-universal-credit/
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 10th Jul 18, 8:24 AM
    • 13,253 Posts
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    zagfles
    On the positive side, I've just been helping a friend (single parent) with her UC and she'll be significantly better off under UC, also will make life easier to not have to report income to 3 separate govt departments who all use a different definition of income.

    Any change in the benefits system will always cause problems, and winners and losers, remember all the problems with tax credits rollout in 2003-2005, the failed attempt to make it digital, the problems with overpayments etc.
    • Weary soul
    • By Weary soul 10th Jul 18, 9:14 AM
    • 263 Posts
    • 347 Thanks
    Weary soul
    The big difference (as many others have pointed out elsewhere) UC is a benefit set up to fail. It's purpose is to make it difficult to claim and the regime a claimant has to go through to stay on it, (even when working) that people will do anything not to claim it.

    It's not there to help, but to hinder imo. I'm not the only one to think this either....

    https://www.24housing.co.uk/news/housing-federations-unite-to-fight-flawed-universal-credit/
    Last edited by Weary soul; 10-07-2018 at 9:31 AM.
    “Lord Thomas of Gresford: My Lords, one of the three great universal lies is, “I am from the Government and I am here to help you”. ”
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 10th Jul 18, 9:38 AM
    • 13,253 Posts
    • 11,255 Thanks
    zagfles
    The big difference (as many others have pointed out elsewhere) UC is a benefit set up to fail. It's purpose is to make it difficult to claim and the regime a claimant has to go through to stay on it, (even when working) that people will do anything not to claim it.

    It's not there to help, but to hinder imo.
    Originally posted by Weary soul
    No it isn't. That's tin-foil hat conspiracy theory. UC is supported in principle across the political spectrum and by poverty charities, eg here's what the JRF say: https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/jrf-statement-universal-credit

    The implementation leaves a lot to be desired, but like tax credits, "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence".

    As with all things where there are winners and losers, the losers will shout the loudest while the winners stay quiet.
    • WillowCat
    • By WillowCat 10th Jul 18, 11:37 AM
    • 817 Posts
    • 993 Thanks
    WillowCat
    I should start with an admission that I'm still on legacy benefits, though I have an appreciation of the effects of UC as I volunteer as an adviser.

    For me, in my position as a carer for my disabled partner (currently claiming carer's allowance and ESA) the rules surrounding working on UC are much, much more generous than ESA. The harsh withdrawal of benefits on ESA if I work mean I feel trapped. UC gives a work allowance much more generous than the £20 a week of ESA (in our case with no housing costs it's £409 a month), and then instead of a pound for pound reduction in benefit it's a taper rate of 63%. I now feel that I can try and have a working life in addition to being a carer. Our claim under UC will be greater than ESA even if I don't work as my partner is in the support group.

    I do however have concerns surrounding the treatment of self employed people on UC. While I broadly support the aims of the minimum income floor, the application of the rule on a monthly basis doesn't take into consideration the seasonal nature of many businesses or even the quite reasonable desire to have an annual two week holiday. An employee will have 'holiday pay' which is held back by their employer and paid while they are on holiday. A self employed person cannot 'hold back' a similiar income as it has to be declared in the month it is earned, and therefore their income will be severely reduced in the month they take their holiday. The MIF will kick in and they will be left in a much poorer position than a similar paid employee.

    A further issue with the MIF concerns self employed people who are ill for a short or medium term. It has been confirmed to me via a FOI request that if the self employed person intends to resume employment once their health has improved then the MIF will still be in place, even if they have a fit note. The example given in a government document is a plumber with a broken leg who is not expected to be able to work for 6 months, still has the MIF applied. Again, they cannot 'hold back' income to cover these situations, and if the MIF is applied when there is no prospect of being able to earn then self employed people face very real hardship including losing their homes.

    The last issue with self employment is the unfairness of how those earning less than their MIF compare to employed persons earning less than their CET. The employed will be put onto the 'light touch' regime if the household income over £338 per month (single claim) or £541 a month (joint claim). They will have no obligation to work search or increase earnings and UC will be maximised. However the self employed have the MIF set at their CET and if they earn the same as a household of employed persons at the light touch level the self employed person will be penalised by the MIF assuming their earnings are at the higher CET level.
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