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  • FIRST POST
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 3rd Jul 18, 8:43 AM
    • 83Posts
    • 43Thanks
    tempsc
    NCP rail station parking - F3 PCN
    • #1
    • 3rd Jul 18, 8:43 AM
    NCP rail station parking - F3 PCN 3rd Jul 18 at 8:43 AM
    Hi.

    I was recently parked and paid for three days parking at a rail station. On arrival, the only space available to me was one which was slightly limited due to the way other cars were parked. This resulted in my RH front wheel being parked outside of the marked space. This was photographed and did show my wheel outside of the marked space. However, the photos were taken at a time with no other cars parked adjacent to mine as it was when I had originally parked.

    Anyway, on my return, I had two parking charge notices attached to the windscreen. I have appealed one of the notices to NCP and this was refused.

    Any advice as to where I go from here? Should I now appeal the second PCN? Go to POPLA? Ignore?


    Thank you for any advice.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 3rd Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    • 19,383 Posts
    • 30,611 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 3rd Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd Jul 18, 8:55 AM
    Ticket #1 - your appeal has been rejected, so you should have a POPLA Code. Read up on how to appeal to POPLA via the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3. Let us see your draft before submission. Be aware of the deadline date you have for submission.

    Did you identify the driver in your initial appeal to NCP? What exactly did you say in it?

    Ticket #2. Appeal to NCP using the template appeal in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1. Don't add anything to it. They will reject it (but by using the template no toes can be blown off by inadvertent identification of the driver), then you will have a second POPLA Code which you will deal with as per above.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 3rd Jul 18, 9:02 AM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 9,803 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 3rd Jul 18, 9:02 AM
    • #3
    • 3rd Jul 18, 9:02 AM
    Sounds like a total scam. Were this to go to court, (unlikely as NCP have found court costly in the past), imo they would crash and burn. Not only is it de minimis

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=de+minimis&form=EDGTCT&qs=OS&cvid=da8a9fa 2b3ff4fd79bccd83acf3ef033&cc=GB&setlang=en-GB&PC=ACTS

    it may not be scheduled land for POFA, and if you have not told them who was driving they can go whistle. Complain to your MP

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 3rd Jul 18, 9:07 AM
    • 3,171 Posts
    • 4,868 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #4
    • 3rd Jul 18, 9:07 AM
    • #4
    • 3rd Jul 18, 9:07 AM
    As TD said if this is a railway car park and covered by byelaws only the TOC can take this to a Magistrates court (and they won't), NCP can go no further than sending scary letters.


    Stringing this out as much as possible would then kill it in six months when no further action can be taken.
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 3rd Jul 18, 4:50 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    • #5
    • 3rd Jul 18, 4:50 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Jul 18, 4:50 PM
    Thanks all. and to UMKOMAAS. Away on travels at the moment but will post on here my original appeal text and draft prior to POPLA submission too when I get back.

    Thanks again.
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 10th Jul 18, 10:22 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:22 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:22 AM
    Hi UMKOMAAS.

    Could you advise please? I've taken a look at the Newbie FAQ's stick 3 post but I'm unsure which part applies to my situation? Can I go with the 'No Keeper' route or 'Landowner Authority' route (as this is Rails station car park operated by NCP). I'm getting a bit confused and wonder if you could give me a bit of a steer please?

    Thanks.


    Ticket #1 - your appeal has been rejected, so you should have a POPLA Code. Read up on how to appeal to POPLA via the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3. Let us see your draft before submission. Be aware of the deadline date you have for submission.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    • waamo
    • By waamo 10th Jul 18, 1:04 PM
    • 4,176 Posts
    • 5,478 Thanks
    waamo
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:04 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:04 PM
    Hi UMKOMAAS.

    Could you advise please? I've taken a look at the Newbie FAQ's stick 3 post but I'm unsure which part applies to my situation? Can I go with the 'No Keeper' route or 'Landowner Authority' route (as this is Rails station car park operated by NCP). I'm getting a bit confused and wonder if you could give me a bit of a steer please?

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by tempsc
    If you are doing a POPLA appeal chuck the kitchen sink at it. Not relevant land for POFA is a good starting point.

    After that challenge everything form landowner authority to the size of their signs.

    It's up to them to prove their case so make them prove their signs are big enough. Look around for a few examples. Hint post 3 of the Newbies thread might just have links to winning appeals.
    This space for hire.
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 10th Jul 18, 4:13 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 4:13 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 4:13 PM
    Thank you waamo
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 12th Jul 18, 2:46 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    • #9
    • 12th Jul 18, 2:46 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jul 18, 2:46 PM
    Hi. Taking the advice of UMKOMAAS, I have lifted the template from stickyy #1. Quick question though...do I refer to myself as the keeper where I sign off the email?

    Re PCN number: XXXXXXXXXX

    I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

    Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).

    I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed unanimously: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.

    Formal note:

    Service of any rejection letter/POPLA code and/or legal documents by email is expressly disallowed. All responses to me from this point on, must be made by post. Regardless of any MCOL online/email system, service of any court claim must only be made by first class post to the latest address provided by me.

    Yours faithfully, as Keeper.
    P WXXX
    1XXXXX XX Rd
    Town
    County
    Post code
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 18, 2:52 PM
    • 61,422 Posts
    • 74,321 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You don't need to write 'as keeper' because it's in the first line already.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • paulstevens64
    • By paulstevens64 12th Jul 18, 3:21 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 64 Thanks
    paulstevens64
    That is not a POPLA appeal. That is the template to use for your initial appeal to the parking company. Do not send that to POPLA. Re read post 3 of the stickies section. You have already been told what to look for - by Wammo: "If you are doing a POPLA appeal chuck the kitchen sink at it. Not relevant land for POFA is a good starting point.

    After that challenge everything form landowner authority to the size of their signs.

    It's up to them to prove their case so make them prove their signs are big enough. Look around for a few examples. Hint post 3 of the Newbies thread might just have links to winning appeals.

    Please follow his advice.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Jul 18, 3:27 PM
    • 37,380 Posts
    • 84,239 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    That is not a POPLA appeal. That is the template to use for your initial appeal to the parking company. Do not send that to POPLA. Re read post 3 of the stickies section. You have already been told what to look for - by Wammo: "If you are doing a POPLA appeal chuck the kitchen sink at it. Not relevant land for POFA is a good starting point.

    After that challenge everything form landowner authority to the size of their signs.

    It's up to them to prove their case so make them prove their signs are big enough. Look around for a few examples. Hint post 3 of the Newbies thread might just have links to winning appeals.

    Please follow his advice.
    Originally posted by paulstevens64
    The OP has two outstanding PCNs. One needs an initial appeal, and the other needs a PoPLA appeal. You are right that the one above musn't go to PoPLA, but it is the correct one for "the other" PCN that has not yet been appealed.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 18, 3:28 PM
    • 61,422 Posts
    • 74,321 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Is it meant to be a POPLA appeal? I didn't read it as that stage!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 12th Jul 18, 4:04 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    The OP has two outstanding PCNs. One needs an initial appeal, and the other needs a PoPLA appeal. You are right that the one above musn't go to PoPLA, but it is the correct one for "the other" PCN that has not yet been appealed.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Hi. Thanks for all the advice there from everyone. 'As keeper' deleted at sign off but address remains.

    Fruitcake is correct. This is for the initial appeal to NCP for the 2nd PCN. I have already made an initial appeal to NCP before coming to his board. They (NCP) have refused it and so will go POPLA with the 1st. I had parked for three days but found two separate PCN's on my windscreen on my return.

    Thanks again to all. Invaluable advice which is much appreciated.
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 17th Jul 18, 1:33 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    Hi.

    I'm just about to post my 1st appeal with NCP, using the template per above.

    On the NCP page, there is an opportunity to provide 'additional supporting information'.

    Can I safely just ignore this?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Jul 18, 2:19 PM
    • 9,195 Posts
    • 9,361 Thanks
    KeithP
    On the NCP page, there is an opportunity to provide 'additional supporting information'.

    Can I safely just ignore this?
    Originally posted by tempsc
    Yes you can.
    .
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 17th Jul 18, 2:32 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    Thank you Keith.
    • tempsc
    • By tempsc 31st Aug 18, 1:26 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    tempsc
    Hello everyone.

    Thanks for all the previous advice. So. Here's an update...

    PCN *1. (Non payment of car parking fees). So. this is still going through a POPLA appeal. It has been marked as pending since 17th July but on re-checking once again, it remains as pending.

    PCN *2. (Not parked in bay markings). On following all the advice, I sent the template letter and some time later heard from NCP that they were not pursuing it and the matter was closed.

    PCN *3. (Not parked in bay markings). So. I was awaiting the outcome of the PCN *2 as PCN *3 was issued on the 2nd of a two day parking period. Stupidly I didn't use the same template letter as I was awaiting the outcome of the 1st attempt for PCN *2. Today I received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd with a demand of 135.00Pds. It also includes a reference to just the advice and info on this site and makes the suggestion that I visit www.supremecourt.co.uk/uksc-2015-0116.html. I assume that this is just scare tactic but would, as always, very much value yr advice on the current situation due to me not appealing. Is it worth appealing now with the same template letter and referencing the fact that the first PCN was cancelled?

    Thanks as always.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 31st Aug 18, 1:54 PM
    • 3,206 Posts
    • 2,119 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    As per the advice in the NEWBIE sticky, you ignore debt collectors and their letters.
    With regard to appealing, are you still in time to appeal? The deadline should show on the PCN.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Aug 18, 1:55 PM
    • 61,422 Posts
    • 74,321 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Is it worth appealing now with the same template letter and referencing the fact that the first PCN was cancelled?
    Never hurts to send a late appeal, albeit sending it to DRP just gets a reply saying you are too late to appeal and then a load of guff headed 'MY FINDINGS' (Google DRP my findings and read ahead, see it for yourself!).

    The advice is in fact to ignore DRP.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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