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    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 2nd Jul 18, 11:23 AM
    • 26Posts
    • 15Thanks
    minttea1
    IPC ticket - hire car
    • #1
    • 2nd Jul 18, 11:23 AM
    IPC ticket - hire car 2nd Jul 18 at 11:23 AM
    Hi all,


    I appreciate everything is covered in the excellent newbie thread - which I've utilised for POPLA appeal. My quick questions relate to first appeal to IPC windscreen PCN from UK C-PM as a hiree of car, within 21 days.



    1. Is it preferable to send the standard blue template as first appeal to ppc, or hire-car specific like this one (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69767583#post69767583), and remove POFA and NtK bits.
    2. Do I have to appeal by post? I can't see that UK C-PM has an online route.


    Thanks,
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Jul 18, 11:34 AM
    • 61,405 Posts
    • 74,301 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 2nd Jul 18, 11:34 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Jul 18, 11:34 AM
    Where it is a windscreen PCN I would actually send a vague dispute to get there by post well within the 21 days, and maybe just use the usual blue template, as the keeper...much more vague. And it's not a lie, you were the keeper (under the POFA definition) that day.

    My reasons not to use the 'Hirer' one for a windscreen PCN are:

    - it tips them off that you are hiring the car and they might see the hire firm as an easy option to send a NTK to anyway behind your back (bearing in mind you will not have outed yourself as 'driver' it's a grey area they might exploit).

    - it tips them off to comply with the POFA and still send a NTK/NTH to you/the Hire firm.

    So I would be much more 'generic'.

    And yes you will have to post the dispute, set out as a letter (name and address top right, date, heading, 'Dear Sirs', and ending 'yours faithfully' and all that jazz).

    Any scope for getting a speedy cancellation by complaining to the landowner? They might be able to cancel a few per month within 14 days of issue, and today is only the 2nd of this month so maybe you can do it that way by being quick with a phone call/email to whoever is onsite/the owner. Be one of the few they cancel each month!

    Also once you have posted the appeal (get a free certificate of posting at a PO Counter, no putting it in a postbox only, but also NO 'signed for'!) also tip off the Hire firm that you have appealed, and that you WILL NOT refund the Hire firm if they get a letter that they fail to pass to you and if they instead panic and pay.

    Make it clear to the Hire firm (in writing, no phone calls) you do not authorise any payment to a scam ex clamper and that the t&cs of the hire only cover real penalties, not this trash, that you have appealed anyway and they can easily 'transfer liability' by returning a slip with your name & address as hirer on it, if they get a letter from UKCPM and are concerned.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-07-2018 at 12:40 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 2nd Jul 18, 12:20 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    minttea1
    • #3
    • 2nd Jul 18, 12:20 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Jul 18, 12:20 PM
    Cheers coupon-mad,

    That makes perfect sense from past experience with BPA members, but not dealt with IPC member ticket before, so worth the clarification. Absolutely loud and clear on writing to hire company, will do!


    Have tried to get hold of management company for the property, so will see if we can pursue further, but not going to wait too long to send standard reply to ensure it is received well before 21 days.


    Thanks, much appreciated.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 2nd Jul 18, 1:00 PM
    • 37,379 Posts
    • 84,236 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 2nd Jul 18, 1:00 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Jul 18, 1:00 PM
    Get pictures of the site, entrance, signage etcetera ASAP in case you need them later.

    Please complain to your MP about this unregulated scam as this is the only way to get it stopped.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 5th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    minttea1
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    Presumably, I shouldn't bother telling hire company at drop off time (tomorrow), but email them within 21 days?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 18, 4:38 PM
    • 61,405 Posts
    • 74,301 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 4:38 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 4:38 PM
    Don't tell them verbally. This needs to be in writing.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 10th Jul 18, 1:35 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    minttea1
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:35 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:35 PM
    The hire company doesn't have an email address, but I could do this through Resolver, and save some stamp money. Is that overkill for this?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 18, 12:57 AM
    • 61,405 Posts
    • 74,301 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 18, 12:57 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 18, 12:57 AM
    I detest Resolver. USELESS regarding any parking tickets, clueless.

    Why not post a letter.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 15th Aug 18, 3:07 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    minttea1
    • #9
    • 15th Aug 18, 3:07 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Aug 18, 3:07 PM
    Update - have tried contacting landowner management company, whose responses have been about as nasty as could be imagined. Since posted appeal and received response from ukcpm suggesting IAS process, will ignore and await the inevitable 'debt collector' letters.


    Is there any value in drafting a LbC response now? How long could I expect to wait to get to that stage?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Aug 18, 3:12 PM
    • 3,415 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Just read POST TWO of the newbies thread so you know what to write.

    How was the MC nasty>
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 15th Aug 18, 3:14 PM
    • 628 Posts
    • 1,154 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Update - have tried contacting landowner management company, whose responses have been about as nasty as could be imagined.
    Who is the landowner / Management Company?
    Usually these chaps try to politely fob you off in the first instance, they don't generally turn nasty, what did they say? Depending on what was said I wouldn't lie down over this, do you own / rent a flat/house on the estate where the PCN was given?
    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 15th Aug 18, 3:56 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    minttea1
    Who is the landowner / Management Company?
    Usually these chaps try to politely fob you off in the first instance, they don't generally turn nasty, what did they say? Depending on what was said I wouldn't lie down over this, do you own / rent a flat/house on the estate where the PCN was given?
    Originally posted by safarmuk

    Initially, was a polite decline in first instance from one director, but another took over, extremely rude, telling us it's on you, you didn't display a permit, basically tough s***.
    We didn't lie down, but very argumentative, and no point going in circles. Requested copy of contract, and they've sent authorisation form through. It may or may not be the extent to what they have with ppc, but blood from a stone, arguing in an empty room etc, comes to mind.
    Yes.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Aug 18, 4:02 PM
    • 3,415 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Reminding them they are liable for the actions of their agent may concentrate their minds.
    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 15th Aug 18, 4:05 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    minttea1
    Reminding them they are liable for the actions of their agent may concentrate their minds.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001

    Did mention consumer contracts regulations but to no effect.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Aug 18, 12:19 AM
    • 61,405 Posts
    • 74,301 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If you are the resident and own the property (as opposed to renting), ask the MA for proof that the leaseholders were consulted as per the Landlord & Tenant Act and obtained the required consent to vary the leases to enable this punitive regime for exercising their right to park.

    Search this forum for Landlord & Tenant Act consensus.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • minttea1
    • By minttea1 18th Sep 18, 9:56 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    minttea1
    Received a 'formal demand' letter from CPM - this letter is interesting, because they state that I am the driver. I've declared no such thing as I've only sent them the blue template. Is this familiar?
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