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  • FIRST POST
    • longylong
    • By longylong 28th Jun 18, 8:22 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    longylong
    Self certified stress leave
    • #1
    • 28th Jun 18, 8:22 PM
    Self certified stress leave 28th Jun 18 at 8:22 PM
    Hi. Recently my colleagues and I (but mainly me) have been butting heads with one of our directors about the level of work we are being expected to do compared to the amount of staff we have to do the job. This all came to a head today when I was called in to the directors office 1 on 1 and talked to about being disrespectful in emails and how angry she with me. I was then told never email her again and to go through my line manager (despite the fact that she has emailed me directly so I was responding to her) and then abruptly told to get out of her office! I asked if I can have my say and was told no most certainly can not!

    Upon leaving her office I question her on why she thinks people have no respect for her and that respect is not something you get because of the job title on your door but its something earned by the way you treat your employees.

    Anyway I then went to our H.R dept and said I want to home because the stress levels of the job are unbearable and I've had enough of it. I left today after informing my line manager and although I absolutely do not regret my decision to "walk out" I have never been in this situation before and would like some advice on what I can expect from my employer when I go back to work a week from today. What steps should they take, can they demote me because of my so called lack of respect and arguing with a director.

    Its hard to list every little thing that has caused this but the main reason is lack of staff and refusal to hire more. I am responsible for the grounds of a 90 plus acre site with myself at 40hrs a week and one team member at 24hrs a week. The site was previously run on 3x 40hrs a week and 1x16hrs a week and even that was a struggle to keep on top of. For various reasons of retiring, leaving, apprenticeships ending etc I am now left with the current 64man hours a week.

    The next part of the stress comes from the company then expecting me to manage our other smaller site of around 4 acres as the team member of the site retired and rather than choose to replace him they added it onto my work scheduled and expect me to be able to cope with it.

    I have asked several times for more help as I cant cope but have either been given false hope of recruiting more staff or better yet just completely ignored.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 28th Jun 18, 8:33 PM
    • 1,219 Posts
    • 2,519 Thanks
    nicechap
    • #2
    • 28th Jun 18, 8:33 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Jun 18, 8:33 PM
    Hi. Recently my colleagues and I (but mainly me) have been butting heads with one of our directors about the level of work we are being expected to do compared to the amount of staff we have to do the job. This all came to a head today when I was called in to the directors office 1 on 1 and talked to about being disrespectful in emails and how angry she with me. I was then told never email her again and to go through my line manager (despite the fact that she has emailed me directly so I was responding to her) and then abruptly told to get out of her office! I asked if I can have my say and was told no most certainly can not!

    Upon leaving her office I question her on why she thinks people have no respect for her and that respect is not something you get because of the job title on your door but its something earned by the way you treat your employees.

    Anyway I then went to our H.R dept and said I want to home because the stress levels of the job are unbearable and I've had enough of it. I left today after informing my line manager and although I absolutely do not regret my decision to "walk out" I have never been in this situation before and would like some advice on what I can expect from my employer when I go back to work a week from today. What steps should they take, can they demote me because of my so called lack of respect and arguing with a director.

    Its hard to list every little thing that has caused this but the main reason is lack of staff and refusal to hire more. I am responsible for the grounds of a 90 plus acre site with myself at 40hrs a week and one team member at 24hrs a week. The site was previously run on 3x 40hrs a week and 1x16hrs a week and even that was a struggle to keep on top of. For various reasons of retiring, leaving, apprenticeships ending etc I am now left with the current 64man hours a week.

    The next part of the stress comes from the company then expecting me to manage our other smaller site of around 4 acres as the team member of the site retired and rather than choose to replace him they added it onto my work scheduled and expect me to be able to cope with it.

    I have asked several times for more help as I cant cope but have either been given false hope of recruiting more staff or better yet just completely ignored.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by longylong
    How long have you been there? Are you an employee or do you provide gardening services?

    If you've just walked out, you can expect any sanction from being sacked to being warned not to do it again.

    If you've gone sick, self certificated or doctor's fit note, a return to work interview would be normal.

    I would expect you to be disciplined for your behaviour before you went sick/ walked out. Having being advised about your disrespectful behaviour, you were told not to have your say, you then questioned her about why she thinks people have no respect for her. This is insubordination in my view.

    If you have issues about the amount of work you have to do, then either find a new job that meets your expectations or only do what you think you can do in your allotted hours and wait to be dismissed as the main and little sites become unkempt. Either way, do not expect a glowing reference.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • sammyjammy
    • By sammyjammy 29th Jun 18, 8:07 AM
    • 4,352 Posts
    • 4,711 Thanks
    sammyjammy
    • #3
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:07 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:07 AM
    Apprenticeships ending? Probably got yourself a great employer there if they end employment when "cheap labour" comes to an end!

    I have been in this situation where i have had to leave work in the middle of the day, I was stressed (from the bullying and workload) i had been receiving apparently I swore at a senior member of staff, I don't recall this at all. It was a difficult time and I ended up off work for 10 weeks. On my return I had to have a meeting with this member of staff and both our managers. I held my hands up, apologised, explaining I didn't recall the event due to my built up stress etc and that was the end of it. I think the member of staff was disappointed I didn't get into any trouble but the managers were both impressed with how i accepted blame and apologised.
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
    • ACG
    • By ACG 29th Jun 18, 8:30 AM
    • 17,174 Posts
    • 9,054 Thanks
    ACG
    • #4
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:30 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:30 AM
    Whether or not you agree with your employer is one thing.
    Telling them that respect is earned and throwing your toys out and leaving is another. I would expect at the very least a warning, but I would not be surprised if you have got your bosses back up and they are looking to get rid of you when you return.

    Regardless of what you think, they are paying your wages so there does need to be an element of respect from you. You have no idea what they are going through to keep you (and others) in a job.

    I am not taking sides btw, just playing devils advocate.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 29th Jun 18, 8:32 AM
    • 4,848 Posts
    • 8,201 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #5
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:32 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:32 AM

    I would expect you to be disciplined for your behaviour before you went sick/ walked out. Having being advised about your disrespectful behaviour, you were told not to have your say, you then questioned her about why she thinks people have no respect for her. This is insubordination in my view.
    .
    Originally posted by nicechap
    I also would expect disciplinary measures - possibly even dismissal. If you aren't, you'll be very lucky and I'd suggest not pushing it! And it isn't your place to speak on behalf of "other people", whether that is true or not - if they have something to say, let them say it.

    Whilst I think most people will appreciate the pressures of cut backs and impossible workloads, your circumstances are hardly unique. So the same remedies apply to you - do your job or get another one. If you choose the former, then "butting heads" with senior managers was never the way to make your point about workload. You should be putting reasoned arguments to them, showing what can be achieved in the working hours available, providing options for which work gets cut back or not done, and entering into a constructive discussion about the pressures on everyone.

    Because your managers will be under the same cosh, and that includes this director. You all work for a living. You are all stuck trying to make ends meet and pay for everything that needs doing on less money and less staff. That doesn't mean that you need to fall over yourself to be sympathetic - but you will achieve nothing by arguing and being offensive and insulting. Well nothing other than your speedy exit from the job.

    I'd suggest a very convincing and serious apology, and I'd suggest that it happens before you return to work. It will be significantly more believable if you show that you recognise you overstepped the mark before they point it out to you. That might head off disciplinary thoughts.
    • longylong
    • By longylong 30th Jun 18, 8:40 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    longylong
    • #6
    • 30th Jun 18, 8:40 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Jun 18, 8:40 PM
    Hi. I am an employee of the company and have bee since 09.

    Thanks for all the answers on what to expect. Clearly there are some difference of opinions on how a director should treat/respect their staff. In my view its the people at the bottom of the ladder that make the people at the top look good. If the bottom fails or doesn't work then getting to the top isn't possible however I fully respect all your opinions on the way a director should be treated/respected. I didn't come looking for an argument so I'm not going to start one.

    I have tried on several occasions to explain to the directors of both sites that the amount of work and quality of work is impossible. I've been ignored and then told a few days later that it all has to be done and help will be provided. No help was provided.

    I gave a list of all the areas that I maintain and asked for it to be prioritised from important to not so important. Ignored then told its all important and all has to be done.

    I followed the correct procedure for going home, informing H.R and my line manager ( the latter of whom is having the exact same problems I am and was 100% supportive of my decision to go home and is backing my corner all the way) He will also provide me with a good reference should I need it.

    There is no doubt in my mind that I will never win an argument against a director so I'm not even going to consider fighting it. All I can do now is go back next week and see what happens and hopefully be able to fight my corner this time instead of being told to get out like a child being sent to his room!

    Thanks again all
    • longylong
    • By longylong 30th Jun 18, 8:43 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    longylong
    • #7
    • 30th Jun 18, 8:43 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Jun 18, 8:43 PM
    I am also very much looking forward to doing the return to work stress assessment. Its just a shame its come to this for them to take it seriously
    • elsien
    • By elsien 30th Jun 18, 8:54 PM
    • 16,738 Posts
    • 42,234 Thanks
    elsien
    • #8
    • 30th Jun 18, 8:54 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Jun 18, 8:54 PM
    I am also very much looking forward to doing the return to work stress assessment. Its just a shame its come to this for them to take it seriously
    Originally posted by longylong
    What return to work stress assessment would that be? They only have your word for it that any self-diagnosed stress is work related. You've not seen a GP to diagnose any illness, and I've had staff blame work for stress when the underlying factors lie elsewhere.

    But if you're expecting to go back after self-certifying for a week, expect them to risk assess and for things to suddenly change then I think you're in for a surprise.
    Moving forwards (if you're not disciplined for attitude and walking out) I'd suggest you start putting queries in writing such as asking them to identify which tasks are the priority in the allotted time. Do you have appraisals or supervisions at all?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • ChrisK.....
    • By ChrisK..... 30th Jun 18, 9:10 PM
    • 138 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    ChrisK.....
    • #9
    • 30th Jun 18, 9:10 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Jun 18, 9:10 PM
    An MD has earned their position and does not require the respect of ground workers and anyone that challenge their second could expect to get warned, then fired. A job is earned and not owed. When we stop enjoying our job we should find another one instead of protesting. Why would anyone want to work in a job they hate.

    Upon leaving her office I question her on why she thinks people have no respect for her and that respect is not something you get because of the job title on your door but its something earned by the way you treat your employees.
    Thanks
    Originally posted by longylong
    • ChrisK.....
    • By ChrisK..... 30th Jun 18, 9:16 PM
    • 138 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    ChrisK.....
    Nothing "so called" about your lack of respect for your superior. You have just described total contempt and you need to acknowledge that, even to yourself

    What steps should they take, can they demote me because of my so called lack of respect and arguing with a director.
    Originally posted by longylong
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 4th Jul 18, 11:29 PM
    • 1,679 Posts
    • 1,449 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    An MD has earned their position and does not require the respect of ground workers .
    Originally posted by ChrisK.....

    They do if they want to be a successful MD.
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