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  • FIRST POST
    • TORIN0
    • By TORIN0 27th Jun 18, 10:43 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 0Thanks
    TORIN0
    Penalty notice and now (late) NTK from Indigo Park Solutions
    • #1
    • 27th Jun 18, 10:43 AM
    Penalty notice and now (late) NTK from Indigo Park Solutions 27th Jun 18 at 10:43 AM
    Hi all,

    The newbies thread is great, and has given me a lot of info (so thanks for that), however, unless I have just missed it, I couldn't see anything explaining what to do in my situation..

    I received a windscreen "ticket" on 11th April. I completely ignored this and did not appeal at the end of the 28(?) day window which is suggested on here. I have now received on the 25th June what seems to be a NTK letter - I can attach a copy of the letter if this would be helpful. So this falls way out of the 28-56 day window as stated in the pofa. However it seems that these companies don't care about that and just go on regardless.

    So my question is... do I now appeal using the BPA template to Indigo on their website? On this, I just had a look at their online appeal page and it states the following... "Please note that Penalty Notices received at a Rail Car Park cannot be appealed via POPLA." - the issue here does relate to a Rail Car Park. Or do I just continue to ignore and wait until October 11th comes around?

    Thanks for any help!
Page 2
    • TORIN0
    • By TORIN0 2nd Jul 18, 12:43 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    TORIN0
    If the NtK is from DRPS I guess the train operator is Southeastern?

    When Indigo is working for other operators such as GTR, it uses its own sub-contractors ZZPS to chase up upaid tickets. But when it's working for Southeastern it only retains the tickets for about 28 days. Southeastern normally then takes over, applies to the DVLA for keeper details itself, and uses its alter ego DRPS to send out the NtKs.

    You can try appealing to Indigo - as keeper, having seen the windscreen ticket - but most likely they will simply come back with "Your case and file is now held by PPN Debt Recovery and Prosecution Services, therefore any further communication must be done directly with them". (I've got the T-shirt).

    If you then try appealing to DRPS, you'll be told "It is now too late to appeal." If this happens to you, then please complain to Steve Clark of the BPA. Although DRPS are not members of the BPA, and are therefore not obliged to observe its code of practice, Indigo is. And as Indigo issued the ticket, they are obliged to ensure the keeper, as well as the driver, is offered the chance to appeal.

    There is also a rumour that POPLA appeals may soon be restored for byelaws tickets. So again, Indigo should make sure that any keeper who is landed with one their tickets is allowed access to POPLA. Kick up a big stink if you're not.

    As for the "penalties": although they look official, in fact they are home made and totally unenforceable. Don't forget, everyone accused of a criminal offence is innocent until proved guilty. So no-one but the Court can impose a penalty for breach of Byelaws 14 (1-3) - and only when the allegation has been proved. The DfT admitted this in an Freedom of Information response, here:-


    I gather the civil servant concerned is still cleaning lavatories somewhere in the depths of Great Minster House.

    It's all a scam which the DfT has known about for years and refuses to do anything about. You will get a series of very unpleasant letters but once the 6 months is over there is nothing more they can do.
    Originally posted by Handbags-at-dawn
    Thanks for the post.

    Regarding the bolded part, I have sent off a letter to LSER today so I await their reply. Should I go ahead and email him now anyway? As attempting to appeal on Indigo's website is not possible anymore
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 2nd Jul 18, 1:54 PM
    • 132 Posts
    • 275 Thanks
    Handbags-at-dawn
    No need to do anything in a hurry.

    I would wait until LSER/DRPS reply if I were you, and only email Steve Clark when they have given you more cause to complain.
    • TORIN0
    • By TORIN0 12th Jul 18, 8:18 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    TORIN0
    Who issued the ticket?

    Please email the DVLA and ask who has accessed your data in the period from the date of the 'contravention' and the date of receipt of the DRPS letter.

    SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    You need to give your full name, postal address (and that on the V5C) and the VRM of your vehicle. You will get an email confirmation of receipt, then a postal reply in about 7 to 10 days.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Just received a letter back from them

    "dvla takes very seriously its duty under the Data Protection Act yadda yadaa....."

    "However the Act exempts from its non-disclosure provisions the release of personal data where the law allows it an DVLA is not in a position to refuse those who have a legitimate right to receive information"

    "Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles Regulations 2002 requires DVLA to release information from the vehicle register to police, to local authorities for purposes associated with the investigation of an offence or decriminalised parking contravention, and to anyone who can demonstrate 'reasonable cause' to have it. 'Reasonable cause' is not defined in legislation and requests are considered on their merits."


    They then gave me a copy of the request they were sent by London and Southeastern Railway...

    "Why? - PPN issued to car parked in contravention of the displayed T&Cs of the car park"
    "How use info? - Send notice to owners of the VRN suppled to recover monies owed to Southeastern"
    "What legislation? - Railway byelaw 14(1-3): traffic signs, causing obstructions and parking"
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Jul 18, 8:52 PM
    • 18,410 Posts
    • 29,144 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    So this information was passed from L&SER to Indigo? Well that's not right. This is due a complaint to the DVLA and ultimately to the ICO.

    See if others want to add to this.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Jul 18, 8:59 PM
    • 1,583 Posts
    • 2,076 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    L&SER are not a member of sany ATA and can do what they want
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Jul 18, 9:05 PM
    • 18,410 Posts
    • 29,144 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    L&SER are not a member of sany ATA and can do what they want
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    I'm not sure they can pass on personal data wantonly as they please, surely?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 12th Jul 18, 9:16 PM
    • 1,822 Posts
    • 2,488 Thanks
    Castle
    They then gave me a copy of the request they were sent by London and Southeastern Railway...

    "Why? - PPN issued to car parked in contravention of the displayed T&Cs of the car park"
    "How use info? - Send notice to owners of the VRN suppled to recover monies owed to Southeastern"
    "What legislation? - Railway byelaw 14(1-3): traffic signs, causing obstructions and parking"
    Originally posted by TORIN0
    Byelaw penalties are paid to the government, not Railway companies; so that's false.
    (And of course, the DVLA doesn't have a list of owners).
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Jul 18, 9:18 PM
    • 1,583 Posts
    • 2,076 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    yes , they are using indigo as debt collectors (and back office) they still retain the power to a start a court case

    seems that indigo are not doing the KADOE thing anymore , just writing VRN numbers down and getting L&SER to do the DVLA enquiry
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 12th Jul 18, 10:19 PM
    • 132 Posts
    • 275 Thanks
    Handbags-at-dawn
    yes , they are using indigo as debt collectors (and back office) they still retain the power to a start a court case

    seems that indigo are not doing the KADOE thing anymore , just writing VRN numbers down and getting L&SER to do the DVLA enquiry
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    As far as I'm aware, when Indigo is working for TOCS like GTR, the KADOE - ZZPS debt collectors - QDR solicitors routine still prevails.

    But Southeastern have a different system. If windscreen tickets remain unpaid for one month, Indigo sends the file to Southeastern and have no more interest in the matter. Southeastern then start calling themselves Debt Recovery & Prosecution Services, send out a series of threatening letters that have little to do with the law, and after 6 months they pack it in.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 18, 10:52 PM
    • 59,555 Posts
    • 72,719 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    requests are considered on their merits.
    But they are not. That is a lie.

    The DVLA don't and can't look at ('consider on their merits') KADOE requests.

    I would reply and ask for evidence that
    requests are considered on their merits
    and ask how many staff are involved, whether every case (or just a sample, if so how many, what percentage per month/week/day) has human intervention/scrutiny and what checklist is applied when considering every request 'on it's merits' and you want a copy of the report in your own case as to how that 'decision' was reached 'on its merits'.

    Say that, alternatively you invite the DVLA to issue a correction if in fact, no-one made any decision, assessment of the 'merits' or gave any consideration whatsoever to the facts in this case before releasing the data electronically and with no checks & balances at all.

    Say you want a final reply before you make a formal complaint about the DVLA to the ICO.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • TORIN0
    • By TORIN0 13th Jul 18, 9:06 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    TORIN0
    But they are not. That is a lie.

    The DVLA don't and can't look at ('consider on their merits') KADOE requests.

    I would reply and ask for evidence that and ask how many staff are involved, whether every case (or just a sample, if so how many, what percentage per month/week/day) has human intervention/scrutiny and what checklist is applied when considering every request 'on it's merits' and you want a copy of the report in your own case as to how that 'decision' was reached 'on its merits'.

    Say that, alternatively you invite the DVLA to issue a correction if in fact, no-one made any decision, assessment of the 'merits' or gave any consideration whatsoever to the facts in this case before releasing the data electronically and with no checks & balances at all.

    Say you want a final reply before you make a formal complaint about the DVLA to the ICO.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I very much like the approach. I will draft up a letter to send out next week!
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