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  • FIRST POST
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 24th Jun 18, 7:28 PM
    • 51Posts
    • 11Thanks
    JamesBro
    ACE Security Services
    • #1
    • 24th Jun 18, 7:28 PM
    ACE Security Services 24th Jun 18 at 7:28 PM
    Hi.

    Have received a "Charge Notice Enclosed" ticket slapped on the windscreen on May 31st (25 days ago!).

    I checked the BPA and IPC websites and can't find their name on the member lists.

    But they say on the ticket: "We comply with the DVLA requirements on data release and only retain/process information for the purposes for which it was obtained and in accordance with data protection laws".

    Reading the sticky on the forum, shall I therefore expect nothing to come through my door, as it hasn't already?

    Has anyone dealt with this company recently?

    Many thanks,
    James.
    Last edited by JamesBro; 08-07-2018 at 2:42 PM.
Page 2
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 8th Jul 18, 3:00 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    JamesBro
    Yes, I sent it as per the blue appeal on the sticky thread. I put my name (as I'm the keeper) and my address on the bottom .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 8th Jul 18, 3:23 PM
    • 37,728 Posts
    • 84,736 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Yes, I sent it as per the blue appeal on the sticky thread. I put my name (as I'm the keeper) and my address on the bottom .
    Originally posted by JamesBro
    Good; you have appealed as keeper.

    Now complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 8th Jul 18, 3:25 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    JamesBro
    Thank you.

    To confirm, my local MP or the MP in the area where the ticket was issued?

    Any advice of what to put in that letter?
    • Grimble
    • By Grimble 8th Jul 18, 3:31 PM
    • 435 Posts
    • 530 Thanks
    Grimble
    Report them to trading standards at your local council in writing.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 8th Jul 18, 3:48 PM
    • 37,728 Posts
    • 84,736 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thank you.

    To confirm, my local MP or the MP in the area where the ticket was issued?

    Any advice of what to put in that letter?
    Originally posted by JamesBro
    Both.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

    As well as using the word unregulated, point out that since the POFA means a keeper could be held liable, it is an absolute outrage that the scammers are saying they cannot appeal.
    The Keeper has the protection of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012. The Driver has no such protection so the scammers are denying The Keeper their rights under that act of parliament.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 08-07-2018 at 3:52 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 8th Jul 18, 3:52 PM
    • 2,392 Posts
    • 3,338 Thanks
    NeilCr
    How to report to Trading Standards.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/report-to-trading-standards/

    Something in writing to the local office will not necessarily be dealt with. For example

    https://www.essex.gov.uk/Business-Partners/Trading-Standards/Pages/Contact-Trading-Standards.aspx
    Last edited by NeilCr; 08-07-2018 at 3:55 PM.
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 26th Jul 18, 6:13 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    JamesBro
    Hi.

    I've had a response from my email today, and I feel quite stressed by what they've said.

    Could someone please advise for the next step?

    Firstly, the email said:

    We note that you have requested all communicated to be sent via post, however, as this Charge Notice is to be passed to our solicitors at the end of the month, we felt it right that, as well as post, you also receive our response via email so you have ample time to make payment. Therefore, please find attached a copy of the letter that will also be sent to you via post today.

    The letter reads (not word for word):

    As the registered keeper, if you chose not to disclose woh the driver of the vehicle was at the time, by transferring liability, you will remain liable for this Charge Notice in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. All our signage is approved by the IAS and have been found acceptable in multiple court cases, therefore, your claims are entirely incorrect.

    As stated on the NTK, all photographs taken of your vehicle are available at www.acepay.co.uk.

    In regards to your comments about our company and Hansard 2.2.18, there is no mention of our company or the IPC. Please see the quote below:

    - Sir Greg Knight

    "The Bill provides the framework fo rhte introduction of a fair code. In mydiscussions with the minister, he has indicated that he expects signage to play a part in the code. The code should set out that signage must be adequate and must provide details of how to contact a company to make a complaint or dispute a ticket, as well as details of how to activate an independent appeals process.

    Today gives us an opportunity to introduce fair play all round to an industry whose reputation has been besmirched by a few car park cowboys. I hope that the House will agree that it is an opportunity that should be grasped."

    As you have not actually appealed this Charge Notice by stating the reasons why the vehicle was parked against the T&Cs for parking, your letter is not classed as an appeal. Our evidence shows a warning sign was in clear view of the vehicle and a permit was not prominently displayed, therefore, the CN was correctly issued.

    This CN is due to be passed to our solicitors for recovery on 31.07.18, therefore, to avoid further costs and potential court action you we would politely suggest that a prompt payment is made.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Jul 18, 6:16 PM
    • 63,830 Posts
    • 76,484 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As you have not actually appealed this Charge Notice by stating the reasons why the vehicle was parked against the T&Cs for parking, your letter is not classed as an appeal.
    LOL, I am surprised such trash has spooked you. They are saying that they can decide which words constitute an appeal. They are ex-clampers and IMHO, not the brightest sparks.

    Come back when you get a Gladstones Letter before Claim, or a claim form.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 26th Jul 18, 6:18 PM
    • 37,909 Posts
    • 22,017 Thanks
    Quentin
    Nothing to stress about

    You are progressing as explained in the Newbies FAQ thread and posts to you above

    Wait and see if you get a claim
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 26th Jul 18, 6:35 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    JamesBro
    OK, thanks. Naturally stressful really! But yes, maybe I should have more cynicism when I hear from them.

    One more thing, am I wise/unwise to be posting their correspondence on here? Could they seek it out and use it to build their claim?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Jul 18, 6:36 PM
    • 63,830 Posts
    • 76,484 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They could but they are not the smartest, as I said. We see full details of claims every day here and still see a consistent win (and discontinued) rate at court, of 99% successful.

    So it's not an issue to use this forum openly, people do and people win.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 28th Jul 18, 4:49 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    JamesBro
    Thanks again.

    The charge they are asking for is 100.

    They say, "the overdue charge will increase to 160 in the first instance of further action".

    With maternity pay and a big mortgage round our necks, the last thing we need at the moment is hundreds of pounds to pay in a court hearing, which makes it very tempting just to call it quits and give up. I would hate to do that, but I'm worried about the future costs of a claim in court.

    So, could someone tell me what the worst case scenario would be with regards to the costs I could be paying should it go the distance?

    Also, I have been told the sign was in front of the car when it was parked. The sign reads "WARNING PRIVATE LAND" in large font and "Charge of 100" in large font. The actual text saying, "Vehicles must be parked wholly in a bar, display a valid permit", is very small. I'm wondering if this is still a decent enough claim? Most of the examples I see on the Newbies thread seem to be far stronger (such as actually displaying a permit, etc). Please advise on this. I have until Tuesday to decide.

    Also, on the PADI website, here http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Ace_Security_Services.html, it says Court Claim as "High" for this company. This also makes me think it'll get to that stage.

    So two questions;

    1) What's the worst case scenario, cost-wise?
    2) Can a claim be as "weak" as mine and still win?

    Thanks.
    James
    Last edited by JamesBro; 28-07-2018 at 11:46 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 28th Jul 18, 5:05 PM
    • 19,874 Posts
    • 25,173 Thanks
    Redx
    1) a typical loss in small claims court is around 175 and is the original 100 charge plus court fees and legal fees

    court claims in the small claims court are limited in costs and so most of their added costs are objected to

    2) you are asking for a legal eagle to give you a legal opinion based on the info you have put forward, without that legal eagle having see all the facts of the case, the landowner contract and all the evidence pertaining to the case

    if you paid hundreds of pounds to a legal eagle to obtain all this info and evidence and for them to make a legal determination of your case in order to answer your second query above, feel free to do so

    many people with strong cases have lost in court, and many "weak" cases have suceeded, its a lottery, known as judge bingo

    if it goes the distance, a judge will decide the costs and will usse them as the judgment, so the final figure will be decided by the judge having heard both sides , including your objections to the claimants costs

    that typical final figure could be around 175 , which needs to be paid within one month of the judgment date


    that judge will also deal with any POFA2012 issues, what constitutes an appeal to a postal NTK, etc too
    Last edited by Redx; 28-07-2018 at 5:13 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 28th Jul 18, 5:39 PM
    • 10,587 Posts
    • 10,973 Thanks
    KeithP
    Your latest post tells the world who the driver was.

    Can I suggest you edit your post so that the sentence that starts "Also, I have been told..." reads more like:
    Also, I have been told by the driver that the sign was in front of the car when she parked.

    I have until Tuesday to decide.
    What happens on Tuesday?
    Last edited by KeithP; 28-07-2018 at 5:55 PM.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 28th Jul 18, 5:49 PM
    • 19,874 Posts
    • 25,173 Thanks
    Redx
    people who "blab" about what happened on the day tend to lose

    this is why "pleading the 5th" goes down well in the UNITED SATES (new name for the USA since social media was invented , lol) - covfefe ?
    Last edited by Redx; 28-07-2018 at 6:36 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Jul 18, 6:13 PM
    • 63,830 Posts
    • 76,484 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    What's the worst case scenario, cost-wise? ...the last thing we need at the moment is hundreds of pounds to pay in a court hearing,
    But that doesn't happen, what on earth makes you think that? Only about 1% of people here lose and as Redx says, those rare losing parties typically pay only 150-175ish, very similar to the 160 currently demanded. Small claims court doesn't allow huge costs add-ons unless you are unreasonable - which defending a claim, is not.

    Can a claim be as "weak" as mine and still win?
    Yes we see wins 99% of the time and your case is the same as all the others. Not weak.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 28th Jul 18, 11:48 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    JamesBro
    Your latest post tells the world who the driver was.

    Can I suggest you edit your post so that the sentence that starts "Also, I have been told..." reads more like:
    Also, I have been told by the driver that the sign was in front of the car when she parked.


    What happens on Tuesday?
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thank you.

    Tuesday is the arbitrary deadline they have given for the fee to remain at 100 I believe.

    But I shall ignore this demand and carry on to wait for the court claim.

    Thank you.
    • JamesBro
    • By JamesBro 28th Jul 18, 11:58 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    JamesBro
    But that doesn't happen, what on earth makes you think that? .
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thanks as ever.

    I was looking at Small Claim Court Q&As earlier and read that the initial claim fee and the hearing fee can amount to as much as 410+325 at the maximum end. So I was checking to see how likely that is.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 29th Jul 18, 12:45 AM
    • 10,587 Posts
    • 10,973 Thanks
    KeithP
    I was looking at Small Claim Court Q&As earlier and read that the initial claim fee and the hearing fee can amount to as much as 410+325 at the maximum end.
    Originally posted by JamesBro
    Isn't that for a claim of 10,000?
    .
    • abeltasman
    • By abeltasman 30th Jul 18, 12:47 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    abeltasman
    Hi JamesBro,

    I went through a similar situation with Ace. After filing my defence the case was passed to my local county court where the judge struck out their claim / found they had no cause of action.

    Have a read over my thread, it should help.

    Also don't worry about ACE too much. Once they pass the case on to Gladstone's all their correspondence becomes this cut and paste joke.
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