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  • FIRST POST
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 10th Jun 18, 5:38 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 5Thanks
    akzy1990
    Ace Security FIRST APPEAL ARGH!
    • #1
    • 10th Jun 18, 5:38 PM
    Ace Security FIRST APPEAL ARGH! 10th Jun 18 at 5:38 PM
    Hello everyone!!! I have been reading and reading and reading and its amazing to see such success!! My brain is frazzled now and with so much information to be taken in, i have been overwhelmed. I have read all about ACE and Gladstones appeals (i am at that stage too for 3 more from ACE but I have not responded to them at anytime so will post a thread at some point). I have appealed many fines and had good success however these people really really get under my skin, and I want to make it perfect!! I really want to shut them up. This was the letter I sent to appeal, and also what they sent back. As my emotions are getting the better of me, I just want some clarification and cool heads as I don't want to over do it and say the wrong thing. My appeal is as follows.......:

    You issued me with a parking ticket on ……. but I believe it was unlawfully issued. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following:


    • There was insufficient signage

    The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are for RESIDENTS of the parking space. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued unlawfully. In addition, the parking space is private and paid for directly to the landlord. Nowhere does it state in the tenancy agreement, which was signed by the residents of the parking space, that you have the right to issue tickets to residents who pay for their parking. We pay for the parking space and these are the requirement in our legally binding document, Tenancy Agreement.

    • The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable

    The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner. In my case, the £100 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner as the land owner is already being paid the correct sum for the parking. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

    • Mitigating circumstances

    There are mitigating circumstances to explain why the vehicle was parked where it was and the charge should be waived for this reason. Please see attached evidence, which is an e-mail confirming that the car parked has been looked into and is registered property of a resident.


    Finally, I would like to ask you to prove your assertions of issuing tickets. I would like to ask for either a copy of the contract that binds yourselves with the landowner to issue tickets, which is my right in an appeal, or offer a witness statement as an alternative to the contract itself, that is signed by the landowner as per BPA Code of Practice 22.16b.

    If you choose to pursue me, please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

    ......:

    After reading some info on the threads I know the commercially justifiable point is weak.

    Please find below the between our landlord and myself.

    Dear Landlord

    I hope all is well at the office and in general.

    I am e-mailing you the logbook of the car registered to .... in order to request a parking permit for our parking space. Also I sould like to thank you for contacting Ace Securities to hold off for at least a week. Thank you for taking the time to complete this request.

    ........:

    Dear Registered Owner,

    Just to confirm that Ace Security are aware & have logged your new cars registration for 1 week.

    Regards

    ........:

    After the one week a ticket was issued. Can I still do it??? Can I still appeal with the hope of winning???

    Hope someone can help, thanks everyone
    Last edited by akzy1990; 19-09-2018 at 10:01 PM. Reason: .
Page 2
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 25th Jul 18, 9:03 PM
    • 9,805 Posts
    • 10,148 Thanks
    KeithP
    So you have received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, is that right?

    What is the Date of Issue on that Claim Form?

    Have you done the Acknowledgement of Service to buy an extra fourteen days to prepare your Defence?

    There is a pictorial guide, in a Dropbox file, linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which explains how to do the AoS.
    .
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 26th Jul 18, 6:10 AM
    • 3,658 Posts
    • 5,980 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Have you been in touch with the HA to ask why they have allowed Ace to interfere with your lease (the core of your defence) and secondly why they have allowed Ace to take this all the way to court. See what they say unless you've already had something back.

    Secondly the HA is likely to have a formal complaints mechanism which goes all the way up to the Housing Ombudsman. You might want to kick off that process too so you can feed any court win, into a major complaint there.

    Whereas your MP may be gone by Xmas, the HO and the courts will still be there.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 26th Jul 18, 6:42 AM
    • 10,239 Posts
    • 10,134 Thanks
    The Deep
    If the HA are a registered charity you might consider complaining to HM Charity Commissioners that they are contracting liars, cheats and scammers to gouge money out of their tenants. There is nothing charitable about PPCs.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 12th Aug 18, 2:31 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    I have complained to the HA and they failed to comply with their 15 day standard service to respond to a complaint (as stated in their procedures). I have been very stern with the HA and expressed how serious the situation is. They have made several mistakes so far so hopefully that is in my favour.

    In addition I have received the notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track. Am I correct in saying that I will be taking this to an oral hearing and not a paper one as that is the best way to defend!

    The reason I ask is because I have another one to Link parking but gladstone's has sent me the notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track with their own covering letter stating that I can agree payment terms with link parking and they will be happy to listen, they have elected not to mediate and are filing for it to be dealt with paper and their client completed directions questionnaire. Its weird because I have been asking gladstone's for evidence on the link parking case, twice actually and they never gave me anything as I don't have the foggiest as to how this fine came about. anyways i think i have gone off on a tangent as this should be a separate thread.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Aug 18, 2:38 PM
    • 9,805 Posts
    • 10,148 Thanks
    KeithP
    Yes, your latest post really has confused things.

    How many claims are you progressing?

    Probably best that you delete your latest post if it is about an entirely different claim. Start a new thread for that if needs be.

    How about answering the questions in post #21?
    .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Aug 18, 3:56 PM
    • 37,563 Posts
    • 84,494 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    In a residential case it s sometimes better for the driver's identity to be admitted.

    Only state that a person was not the driver if that is the case. If it isn't, then don't state it.

    I'm a bit confused by the need to display a permit if it isn't in the tenancy agreement. I don't know enough about HAs and rental properties though to comment whether displaying a permit should or should not be done.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 12-08-2018 at 4:07 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 12th Aug 18, 4:09 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    i have responded with a defence
    i was almost out of time so i sent a defence in, i'm confident in it but i feel i panicked as well. i received the small claims track form from the court.
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 12th Aug 18, 4:10 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    your right
    i am pursuing 3 for ace and 1 for link which I have no clue about, i requested information from link and gladstone's but nothing.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Aug 18, 4:11 PM
    • 9,805 Posts
    • 10,148 Thanks
    KeithP
    Oh well, I'll leave it to someone else as I cannot understand what's going on and you seem unwilling or unable to explain it.

    Good luck.
    .
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 12th Aug 18, 4:23 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    sorry and thank you
    thanks for trying to help, i read back and found some of it confusing as well, especially the last post. despite it being my first case no excuses as I have read the newbies thread and get the gist. I will improve and explain everything properly.
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 15th Sep 18, 2:02 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    Ppc ace court action
    Hello Everyone!

    I have decided to give a breakdown of my situation as some of my posts have been confusing, disorganised and disorientated. I am going to make a clean simple post that explains everything from top to bottom and if there is any advice that you heroes think is needed for me please let me know.

    1) Five Tickets from the PPC spread out over 6 months for parking in a bay that I pay for on a weekly basis as agreed in my tenancy agreement.

    2) PPC has claimed that they have the right to issue tickets as I do not have a valid parking permit displayed.

    3) My tenancy agreement does not state that a parking permit is needed however the PPC have stated that this was enforced several years after signing an agreement with the landlord and even know how long I have been living at the property.

    4) I requested a parking permit due to the stress after the third ticket and I have complained to the landlord in regards to the tickets.

    5) Landlord has still not provided any permits and the complaint has been escalated severely and a letter has been sent to the local MP.

    6) First appeal letter, LBC appeal letter have both been completed using support from the forum and a defence statement has been sent off.

    7) Final letter from court was completed to state that I want a oral hearing and now I am waiting for a court date.

    8) I have read through several posts and cases that are almost identical to mine in order to brief myself and understand where I stand.

    So in brief that is the case and I hope it all makes sense. If there is anything that anyone feels I need extra then please let me know as I want to take them down!!! Not just because of the fines but because of there mannerisms and attitude and ignorance shown to responses to my letters of appeal.

    THANKS EVERYONE!!!
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 15th Sep 18, 2:14 PM
    • 3,997 Posts
    • 4,737 Thanks
    Johno100
    What was wrong with your existing thread(s)?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Sep 18, 2:23 PM
    • 37,507 Posts
    • 21,727 Thanks
    Quentin
    You need to keep everything in the one thread.

    You can see how busy this forum is

    Double threads is not on!

    Copy and paste your post into your original thread and let this one die
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 16th Sep 18, 9:45 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    deleted the other one
    i have put a delete message in the title and i haven't posted on that one for a long time so it can drop off. i researched a little and found there wasn't a way to delete a thread, best advice I found was to let it die.
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 16th Sep 18, 9:46 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    .
    a bit all over the place with what was going on, going in and out of different things and topics so just placed a delete message in the title and not posted on it for a month.
    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 22nd Sep 18, 3:39 PM
    • 9,708 Posts
    • 7,142 Thanks
    Crabman
    Threads have been merged, sorry for the delay
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

    • Eljayjay2
    • By Eljayjay2 23rd Sep 18, 2:24 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    Eljayjay2
    Do you know when the case is due to be heard?


    Do you know the date by which you must provide your bundle (i.e. witness statement and exhibits) to the Court and the Claimant?


    From what you have said, my guess is that you are the tenant of a buy-to-rent landlord. If that is so, when it comes to defending this case, the two documents of paramount importance are the head lease (i.e. your landlord's lease) and your tenancy agreement.


    If you do not have a copy of the head lease and your landlord refuses to give you a copy, you can obtain a copy from the Land Registry by completing a form OC2 and paying a modest fee. Unfortunately, you cannot do this online.


    If you have both documents, post them here in their entirety (after redacting any personal data). If you do not yet have the head lease, post the tenancy agreement on its own for the time being.


    Do as I ask and I shall gladly draft your witness statement for you.
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 25th Sep 18, 9:33 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    Thank you!!
    The case is due to be heard in the first week of november and i have to deliver to the other party all documents in which I intend to rely upon by the 19/10/2018 and pay the court fee by the 16/10/2018. I have started typing up the tenancy agreement so I will post that in its entirety.

    I do not have a copy of the head lease but I have left a message for it as nobody is getting in touch, let alone for my complaint in regards to the parking space. I will be calling back tomorrow to request it and I will be seeing the management on Saturday regardless.

    I can't thank you enough for taking the time to read this and look at this. Its much much much more than I could have expected.
    • Eljayjay2
    • By Eljayjay2 26th Sep 18, 12:54 AM
    • 47 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    Eljayjay2
    Do not waste any more time waiting for someone to provide a copy of the head lease.

    As mentioned previously...

    If you do not have a copy of the head lease and your landlord refuses to give you a copy, you can obtain a copy from the Land Registry by completing a form OC2 and paying a modest fee. Unfortunately, you cannot do this online.
    • akzy1990
    • By akzy1990 1st Oct 18, 11:19 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    akzy1990
    thank you to the hundreds of regulars and their support
    looks like I was a being naive, I haven't received any messages from anyone so nothing to report on that, but thinking twice I just realised what was being asked of me. If there is any advice the regulars could do to support then let me know, otherwise I will continue my hard work in reading as many posts on here and learning and moulding.
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