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  • FIRST POST
    • NorfolkNewboy
    • By NorfolkNewboy 7th Jun 18, 1:38 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    NorfolkNewboy
    ParkingEye - more than 14 days before notification
    • #1
    • 7th Jun 18, 1:38 PM
    ParkingEye - more than 14 days before notification 7th Jun 18 at 1:38 PM
    Hi

    I've tried looking for the best advice but unfortunately am not really sure of what to do.

    My vehicle was parked at Mayflower Cruise Terminal, Southampton, on 11th May for approx 30mins to collect a family member from P&O Ventura but a ticket was not purchased.
    The driver was instructed to use the Short Stay carpark by an employee but was not informed that payment was expected.
    A large sign near the entrance to the carpark said "Cruise Passenger Parking" or words to that effect, so it was assumed that this formed part of the service provided by P&O.
    The driver walked to a nearby Pay Point where the phrase "Not In Use" was displayed, so accepted this as confirmation that parking was free during the disembarkation process.

    A PCN for £100 has been issued by ParkingEye, stating that the event occurred on 11th May and it was issued on 31st May. It arrived with me, the Registered Keeper, on 4th June.

    Please can you suggest my best course of action?

    Thank you.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Jun 18, 1:28 AM
    • 59,444 Posts
    • 72,608 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 18, 1:28 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 18, 1:28 AM
    A PCN for £100 has been issued by ParkingEye, stating that the event occurred on 11th May and it was issued on 31st May. It arrived with me, the Registered Keeper, on 4th June.
    Search the forum for Golden Ticket, and read what the NEWBIES thread has to say!

    You WILL win if you do it right!

    You are the actual rk at the DVLA - yes? Not a lease car?

    Don't ask where the NEWBIES thread is, or for a link to it, please. Can't stand that, when every post I make tells everyone exactly where to click...see below...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • NorfolkNewboy
    • By NorfolkNewboy 8th Jun 18, 10:58 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    NorfolkNewboy
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 18, 10:58 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 18, 10:58 AM
    Thanks. I think I found a thread which is relevant and I have prepared this statement to send to PE in the first instance. Do you think it is OK or is it, perhaps, excessive and giving away too much info?


    Dear Sir/Madam

    I am writing to you in regards to a Parking Charge Notice; Reference number: xxxxx/yyyyy

    Firstly, I would like to state that I respectfully decline your request to be provided with the name and address of the driver, as is my right, and secondly; as the registered keeper of the vehicle, I am challenging your parking notice on these grounds:

    Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012: Recovery of Unpaid Parking Charges
    6.2 Where a contravention is detected remotely (such as by cameras), the landholder may request registered keeper data from the DVLA immediately and must write to the registered keeper within 14 days seeking details of the driver or payment of the parking charge.

    AOS Code Changes (effective 2 January 2018)
    Clause 21.7 & 33.2
    When applying for Keeper Details you must ensure that you adhere to the DVLA’s guidelines and requirements.

    Given that your letter states that the event took place on 11/05/18 and that the letter was issued on 31/05/18 you have clearly failed to comply with these requirements.

    Therefore, there will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you have obtained the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    2. The driver assures me that they had obtained verbal permission by an ABP staff member to utilise the short stay car park. They were informed that there would be no charge so long as they did not stay long, as it was important to avoid causing an obstruction whilst collecting a family member who was returning from a cruise on P&O Ventura.

    Southampton By-Laws states:
    Obstruction or interference on the dock estate
    37. No person shall:
    (a) except with the permission of ABP, deposit or place on any part of the dock estate any goods or park any vehicle so as to obstruct any road, railway, building, mooring place, plant, machinery or apparatus or the access thereto; or
    (b) without lawful authority, use, work, move or tamper with any plant, machinery, equipment or apparatus at the dock estate.

    This clearly shows that parking was permitted with permission of ABP.

    3. On entering the car park the driver observed a large sign stating “Parking for Cruise Passengers” or words to that effect.

    This confirmed their belief that it was acceptable to remain here whilst waiting for their relative.

    4. The driver further observed a Pay Station and, after parking, walked to inspect it. The illuminated screen displayed the phrase “Not In Use”. Photographic evidence of this is available.

    This again re-inforced the message that parking was free during the disembarkation process.

    5. The cameras only indicate the time of arrival and departure from the car park, they do not accurately reflect the amount of time the driver had spent parked in a parking bay. Rather, it includes the time spent entering, driving around and waiting for a bay as well as the time spent stationary in a parking bay. The driver claims that due to limited parking and having to wait for a space large enough to accommodate the vehicle to become available, the amount of minutes parked was considerably lower than what is quoted on the Parking Charge Notice.

    7. The parking Company [Parking Eye] has failed to provide any evidence that they in fact have the right to issue the Parking Charge Notice. It is not unreasonable to request evidence that they have acquired authorisation from the landowner to do so.

    8. Further to that point, it would not be unreasonable to request the current contract with the landowner be provided as proof to ensure it does not include the known, and frequent clause that does not allow charges to be made to first time offenders who have accidentally broken the rules, as opposed to regular offenders who do so repeatedly.

    On behalf of the driver, I request Parking Eye provide me with the proof above requested if they wish to pursue a Parking Charge.

    Kind Regards

    I further worry that mentioning visiting a Pay Point allows a complaint that the T&Cs were available.

    Thanks in advance.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Jun 18, 12:18 PM
    • 9,696 Posts
    • 9,528 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 18, 12:18 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 18, 12:18 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Jun 18, 2:53 PM
    • 18,469 Posts
    • 23,382 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 18, 2:53 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 18, 2:53 PM
    if PE failed POFA2012 then as keeper there is no need for such a detailed and long winded appeal, what heppened on the day is not relevant to the keeper, as the keeper is not liable - end of story - period, nothing to see, move along


    go to the top of this forum , count 3 threads down and read the NEWBIES FAQ thread , especially post #1 (like CM told you to do)


    use the one size fits all template appeal from that post, and add the following



    As you have failed to send me , the keeper , the PCN within the statutory 14 day timescale required by POFA2012, then I as keeper am not liable for this invoice and you should cancel it immediately , or provide a POPLA code so POPLA can cancel it on your behalf. The driver will not be named, so do not ask
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • NorfolkNewboy
    • By NorfolkNewboy 7th Jul 18, 1:56 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    NorfolkNewboy
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 18, 1:56 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 18, 1:56 PM
    Despite using PE's internet appeal system (19/6/18) I have today received a FINAL NOTICE for £100 telling me that 28days have passed and the appeal period is over.

    I can "make a late appeal .. including all information" which, if it is unsuccessful, will provide me with details of POPLA.

    It provides 2 possibilities: writing to their Appeals Department or using their online system.

    I have a screen shot of my details and the first lines of my initial response, showing date and time.

    What would you advise, please?

    Thanks.
    • Grimble
    • By Grimble 7th Jul 18, 2:51 PM
    • 419 Posts
    • 505 Thanks
    Grimble
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 18, 2:51 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 18, 2:51 PM
    Short and sweet, email you appealed on their system on date.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 7th Jul 18, 3:41 PM
    • 3,113 Posts
    • 4,756 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 18, 3:41 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 18, 3:41 PM
    Mayflower Cruise Terminal is not relevant land either.
    • NorfolkNewboy
    • By NorfolkNewboy 7th Jul 18, 5:55 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    NorfolkNewboy
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 18, 5:55 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 18, 5:55 PM
    Appeal submitted BUT I now notice there is a sentence following their "accepted" note.
    It states :
    Please note, you will receive further confirmation that we have received your appeal by email. If you do not receive this email within 24 hours please contact us again via our website ] [MY emboldment]

    I didn't spot that last time (assuming it was there) so to some degree this is my own fault: A WARNING TO OTHERS!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jul 18, 7:20 PM
    • 59,444 Posts
    • 72,608 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's not your fault, PE have NEVER previously acknowledged appeals by email and this was never something to expect to look out for.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Jul 18, 7:43 PM
    • 9,696 Posts
    • 9,528 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • NorfolkNewboy
    • By NorfolkNewboy 7th Jul 18, 9:01 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    NorfolkNewboy
    Perhaps this is something new?

    "Thank you for contacting ParkingEye, we acknowledge receipt of your appeal.

    We endeavour to respond to all appeals as soon as possible. Whilst we consider an appeal the parking charge amount will not increase. Please note that a full written response may take up to 28 days.

    Kind Regards,

    ParkingEye Appeals Team"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jul 18, 9:19 PM
    • 59,444 Posts
    • 72,608 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes that is new.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • NorfolkNewboy
    • By NorfolkNewboy 16th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    NorfolkNewboy
    Despite using the phrase
    "Service of any rejection letter/POPLA code and/or any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed. All responses to me from this point forward must be made by the Royal Mail postal service."
    I have been contacted 3 times by emails from PE! I guess I may receive a postal response in the next few days.

    Firstly I was informed that
    "We can confirm that your request has been passed to our privacy team."

    Then
    "We can confirm that your name and address were provided by the DVLA as the registered keeper of vehicle"
    and
    "Please note that you can access the Driver Portal on the ParkingEye website to view evidence relating to your Parking Charge. This includes ANPR images as they relate to the parking event. To access these images, you will need to enter your Parking Charge Reference and vehicle registration number as found on the correspondence issued by us."
    plus
    "In addition, we wish to confirm that information about the right of an individual to request access to the data we hold about them has been available to all individuals, both pre and post the coming into force of the General Data Protection Regulation, via the privacy policy on our website. This policy has now been updated in line with the GDPR. For more information, please visit (website given) where you can make a request for access using our online privacy form or via the postal address provided.

    We can confirm that we have now passed your appeal back to our Appeals Team for consideration and they will be in touch in due course."

    Today I have received the third email notification
    "We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been unsuccessful and that you have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure"
    and a POPLA code is included.

    So, help me please:
    Do I simply stand on the grounds of "Event = 11/5/18, Notice = 31/5/18" so beyond the 14 days allowed for remote capture of data under POFA2012?
    Do I additionally state the facts covered in my earlier post eg machine stating "not in use"?
    Do I additionally object to the amount of the PCN on the grounds that £100 was deemed "not excessive" [where this was the only source of income for the parking enforcement agency] BUT I thought I had seen somewhere that it was successfully argued that if parking charges existed [as they do in this case], then £100 is excessive (unfortunately I cannot recall where that information came from)?

    Many thanks
    • NorfolkNewboy
    • By NorfolkNewboy 17th Jul 18, 12:58 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    NorfolkNewboy
    Apologies: after my initial "panic" reaction, I've done some searching and can see that I need to compose a long response, preferably incorporating some legal precedences and post it as an attachment.

    Thanks to all supporters of this website.
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