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  • FIRST POST
    • karenep
    • By karenep 30th May 18, 12:47 AM
    • 26Posts
    • 6Thanks
    karenep
    VCS Parking Fines - Now Court Papers arrive URGENT ADVISE PLEASE
    • #1
    • 30th May 18, 12:47 AM
    VCS Parking Fines - Now Court Papers arrive URGENT ADVISE PLEASE 30th May 18 at 12:47 AM
    County Court Claims Forms - Parking at a flat we own but tenant has permit
    We have been issued with parking tickets by Vehicle Control Services when parking on private property in Manchester - VCS manage the parking and each apartment is entitled to one permit. There is limited road parking and we from time to time have parked when carrying out maintenance to the apartment, each and every time, we have had a ticket left on the car - which we were advised to ignore, and each letter that followed - clearly bad advise. It has now got to the stage that Court papers have arrived, followed by particulars of claim from VCS.

    I am totally baffled at what we should do.

    The car is insured for two people to drive, and the person issued with the fine paperwork was not the driver.

    There is a sign within the apartments, its a locked access and you need a key fob to enter - the tenant has always opened this up for us.

    Can anyone recommend a defence or thread that I should read.

    I have been away, and the papers have already been here 10 days.

    What should I do?
Page 3
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 25th Jul 18, 2:08 PM
    • 3,735 Posts
    • 4,540 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    No, it just gets you away from the lease-breaking harassment from the trespasser

    Let others comment. DO NOT rush this.
    • karenep
    • By karenep 25th Jul 18, 2:28 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    Dont send this to Premier yet?

    No, it just gets you away from the lease-breaking harassment from the trespasser

    Let others comment. DO NOT rush this.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 25th Jul 18, 2:43 PM
    • 3,735 Posts
    • 4,540 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    What part of "Do not rush this" is unclear?
    You want others to comment
    WHich they will find harder to do, as youve now pushed us to a new page with unecessary posts
    And of course it doesnt go to premier. Theyre the monkeys. You go to the managing agent, they signed the contract, theyre the ones responsible for the actions of their agent.
    • karenep
    • By karenep 31st Jul 18, 1:06 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    apologies for being over eager, or more like in panic mode - would you suggest starting a new post?
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 31st Jul 18, 1:42 PM
    • 3,300 Posts
    • 2,237 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    would you suggest starting a new post?
    Originally posted by karenep
    Keep all information relating to this incident in this thread, if you start a new post/thread other posters will not "connect the dots."
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 31st Jul 18, 2:31 PM
    • 3,735 Posts
    • 4,540 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    What I meant was, you want response to a post now back a page. So just repost it here.
    • theresa8
    • By theresa8 31st Jul 18, 2:37 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    theresa8
    you need to file a defence quickly before time runs out. do not ignore court paper or fine. always send a letter with proof of postage with defence. perhaps the tenant can write a letter say that he permit you to park there whilst making repairs at his flat? find defence on google. you be surprise what you can find
    • theresa8
    • By theresa8 31st Jul 18, 2:38 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    theresa8
    ask the court for extension or time? get free solicitor consultation of 1/2 hour? if you are the tenant, you have a right to park there or not. if yes, show proof that you got permit to park there and file it to court. do it quick. do not delay.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 31st Jul 18, 2:41 PM
    • 3,735 Posts
    • 4,540 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Theresa - no idea what you have posted about here, it doesnt make any sense given the circumstances.
    • karenep
    • By karenep 31st Jul 18, 11:33 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    Anyone tried this approach and been succesful? Have written to both Premier Estates and Mainstay asking for details of who the contract is between but this too has fallen on deaf ears. We have never signed an agreement to participate in any such parking scheme, would this require our agreement being as the space we use, with or without permit is ours as defined in the lease?


    Respond back stating:

    The regulations cannot be made so that they:
    1 )Derogate from the granted use of the space
    2) REquire the lessee to contract with a 3rd party to park in the space granted to them
    3) Require the lessee to pay a sum outside of that agreed in the lease, and to a 3rd party who has no rights whatsoever under the lease.
    4) interefere with the peaceful enjoyment of the property

    Cancel the charge, remove my space from the scheme, or be on the receiving end of an injunction prohibinting your agents trespass on my land, and a bill for damages.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    • karenep
    • By karenep 6th Aug 18, 10:56 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    So I write to Premier and ask who the Contract is between and also tell them I require them to remove me from the Parking Scheme. Their response is detailed below. I have gone back telling them that the parking is safeguarded in so much as you need a fob to enter the car park, and in the 3 years we have owned the property we have never had anyone park in our space, in fact there are always 20-30 spaces free anyway. I have advised that they either cancel the fines or remove me from the scheme. Surely they can cancel these penalty charges, whether they have gone to court or not?

    "Thank you for your subsequent emails relating to the parking patrol. I can confirm Premier Estates Limited authorised for the parking system to be implemented as the Managing Agent for the development to address the parking issues the development was experiencing, which would still be encountering should the permit system not be implemented today.

    Unfortunately, we are unable to omit you from the parking enforcement as it is a block contract and all parking spaces are included in the policy. Following the introduction of the parking permit system in 2014 I can confirm the residents are now able to park in their allocated parking bay as oppose to not being able to park, due to non-residents parking their vehicles in the allocated bays whilst they go to either their place of work or the local shops. This has much improved the parking problems at Life 3.

    Assuring you of our best intentions at all times.


    Kind Regards
    Linda Dolan
    Estate Manager"
    • karenep
    • By karenep 7th Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    And alas, in the post today we have another Claim from the County Court Business Centre I Nottingham, relating to a different vehicle I own, but not necessarily driving !!!8230;. Accompanied with more post from VCS, regards this Court claim whereby they claim I Breached parking rules on 25 July 2017, 26 July 2017, 22 February 2018, 23 February 2018, 24 February 2018 and 25 February 2018 - claiming 600!!!

    I have tried without success from the dreadful Premier Estate Management Company, to either remove me from system or, get these fines cancelled. Mainstay, whom I have contacted every time - choose to ignore. when you purchase a property, you certainly do not realise that you potentially are being asked to pay to park. We have several vehicles between the family, and it is ridiculous to expect one permit to get transferred between them all. Incidentally, the reason why the vehicle was there was because of major issues which Premier were extremely slow to react to - Mice in Flat and Burst Water pipe which meant residents had no water across an entire weekend, other than sporadic placemen of 2Litre bottles here and there. Thats by the by I guess, just highlighting how poor a Management company they are.

    In total now I have three claims going via Court. As I have got nowhere so far, and concerned at the thought of attending Court, would anyone suggest finding a professional legal route might be a better chance of fight this? eitherway, I feel this is going to hurt my pocket.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th Aug 18, 7:21 AM
    • 3,664 Posts
    • 5,999 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    You should write to the court manager and give him a list of the claims and ask for these to be scheduled together to save the court's time. Then the one defence will be used for all three and cuts down on time wasted for everyone.

    If you are lucky the judge may throw one or two out for abuse of process (which you should mention when writing to the court manager)

    As an afterthought, if you get offers by PM to help you, you might want to let us know.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • karenep
    • By karenep 9th Aug 18, 12:00 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    I have a copy of our Lease and scanning though all details related to Parking Space, so far, not a thing about a parking scheme within the lease paperwork.

    I will write to the Court Manager as IamEmanre suggests, ty. is there any merit in adding a defence that I was not driving the Vehicle, they are driven by several drivers?
    • karenep
    • By karenep 12th Aug 18, 12:50 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    I have had my original Solicitor go through the Lease and the matter of charging to Park in ones own allocated space. "Your legal Title specifically demise to you a Car Parking Space - it is not it is not subject to any additional charges or payment, as far as I can see that should be maintained by the Company but no separate charge to use it is payable. If Premier insist that they can charge this then I would request the reference in the Lease on which they seek to rely upon in now introducing a Parking Management Company and charging you"

    Yesterday I received a "Notice of Allocation to the small Claims Track (Hearing), advising that the hearing of the claim will take place on 16 November 2018, however, unless the claimant does by 4pm on 19 October 2018 pay to the court the trial fee of 25 or file a properly completed application, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 19 October without further order.

    Not sure whether this is a standard paragraph?

    Neithertheless, I am compiling a response with all my Lease documents and supporting defence.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Aug 18, 12:58 PM
    • 9,949 Posts
    • 10,252 Thanks
    KeithP
    Yesterday I received a "Notice of Allocation to the small Claims Track (Hearing), advising that the hearing of the claim will take place on 16 November 2018, however, unless the claimant does by 4pm on 19 October 2018 pay to the court the trial fee of 25 or file a properly completed application, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 19 October without further order.

    Not sure whether this is a standard paragraph?
    Originally posted by karenep
    You only needed to stick "Notice of Allocation to the small Claims Track (Hearing)" into google to find this:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/688440/n157-eng.pdf

    So, as you have quoted it, no it isn't a standard paragraph. Is that really what it said?

    The 'standard' paragraph can be seen on that sample form.
    Last edited by KeithP; 12-08-2018 at 1:24 PM.
    .
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 12th Aug 18, 1:20 PM
    • 3,664 Posts
    • 5,999 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Not sure whether this is a standard paragraph?
    Yes it is a standard paragraphs. Court rules were tightened up months ago to stop claimants (their solicitors really) letting cases run to a hearing but not paying the hearing fee. This para was changed to warn claimants no fee / no hearing / no warning.

    If you are going to send them the lease, get proof of posting and include a "drop hands" offer with it. If they continue after seeing the lease and lose, then hit them for additional costs.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • karenep
    • By karenep 14th Aug 18, 12:35 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    karenep
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=57267

    Copy of my Lease.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Aug 18, 9:06 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,676 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please can you pick out the relevant parts for people to have a quick look at?

    Have you acknowledged all the claims, but so far only put in a defence for one?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Aug 18, 9:10 PM
    • 19,845 Posts
    • 31,342 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    This is moving on apace today on PePiPoo.

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=122013
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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