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  • FIRST POST
    • jnm21
    • By jnm21 12th Apr 18, 8:49 AM
    • 650Posts
    • 218Thanks
    jnm21
    Kufflink P2P lending chat thread
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:49 AM
    Kufflink P2P lending chat thread 12th Apr 18 at 8:49 AM
    I think you will be OK if you stick to self select as both are very close to drawdown, and I think look like they could close today or tomorrow.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    I'm not too sure - the earliest draw down of the 2 is 27/04/2018 - I would recommend going for auto-invest if you can't/won't invest 500. Kuflink have been asked the will reserve suffice twice with no reply on P2PIF & another member has emailed them it too.
Page 5
    • Trentenders
    • By Trentenders 27th Oct 18, 11:40 AM
    • 1,165 Posts
    • 735 Thanks
    Trentenders
    They contacted me to offer the same 100 + 100 referral scheme. I'm guessing that I won't be the only one they contacted to extend the original offer.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 27th Oct 18, 12:06 PM
    • 1,611 Posts
    • 1,260 Thanks
    bxboards
    They contacted me to offer the same 100 + 100 referral scheme. I'm guessing that I won't be the only one they contacted to extend the original offer.
    Originally posted by Trentenders
    I started the original thread before a lot of the P2P referral threads got zapped and I never got this. Never heard anything from them at all apart from new loan opportunities which I guess everyone got.
    • keyboardworrier
    • By keyboardworrier 27th Oct 18, 12:19 PM
    • 122 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    keyboardworrier
    What's the general feeling about Kuflink from existing investors? Would you do it again? Have you received the interest you were expecting? How does it compare to other P2P providers that you've been involved with?

    I am/was about to invest with them, but the later part of this thread is making me nervous. The dropping of cashback to 50 still represents a 10% gain on 500, but I'm wondering whether it is really worth it.
    Originally posted by fatherandson

    I think it's worth it for diversification. They invest 5% (it used to be 20%...) along side us on a first loss basis with a 15% provision fund. I haven't had any defaults so far and interest is always paid on time to the correct amount, they quite frequently have loans with very low LTV's which is a big plus.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 27th Oct 18, 12:33 PM
    • 10,135 Posts
    • 7,427 Thanks
    masonic
    What's the general feeling about Kuflink from existing investors? Would you do it again? Have you received the interest you were expecting? How does it compare to other P2P providers that you've been involved with?

    I am/was about to invest with them, but the later part of this thread is making me nervous. The dropping of cashback to 50 still represents a 10% gain on 500, but I'm wondering whether it is really worth it.
    Originally posted by fatherandson
    It's undoubtedly worth it for someone already exposed to P2P who can benefit from cashback. I started out investing 500 (for the cashback) in a single 6 month self select loan that looked very low risk (it repaid in full after 4 months).

    Every now and then it has some pretty good loans on offer. I haven't touched 'Auto invest' as I consider that to be of poor value.

    Far too early to judge them on defaults and recoveries, but the loans are clearly lower risk than the platforms offering double digit rates so I'd be surprised to see the same substantial losses of capital that have plagued some of those platforms of late.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 27th Oct 18, 12:34 PM
    • 3,658 Posts
    • 2,996 Thanks
    Alexland
    What's the general feeling about Kuflink from existing investors? Would you do it again? Have you received the interest you were expecting? How does it compare to other P2P providers that you've been involved with?
    Originally posted by fatherandson
    We signed up about 3 months ago to get the 100 referral bonuses which were paid promptly and so far they seem a fairly professional small business. However I prefer my chances in the stock market (especially now its better value again) so will be withdrawing the money after the 3.99% auto invest expires next year.

    In the event I wanted their products in future then I would use them again.

    Alex
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 27th Oct 18, 12:38 PM
    • 1,611 Posts
    • 1,260 Thanks
    bxboards
    I think it's worth it for diversification. They invest 5% (it used to be 20%...) along side us on a first loss basis with a 15% provision fund. I haven't had any defaults so far and interest is always paid on time to the correct amount, they quite frequently have loans with very low LTV's which is a big plus.
    Originally posted by keyboardworrier
    I still have a 5 figure sum with them, and that's after withdrawing capital when repaid.

    Also no defaults - but I have no defaults in P2P at all on any platform too be fair. I'm VERY picky when self-selecting loans and when I look at the MT / Lendy and FS defaults, I really wonder how many of these got funded. Kuflink seem to more picky who they'll lend to.

    Since I've been with them I've seen rates drop from 7.2%-7% ish down to the 6 range, whereas many other sites rates are going up.

    But it's a good option I feel for diversification. I always wished there was a secondary market, that stopped me putting in more. I wouldn't want to be in the 3 or 5 year markets, the rates are far too low for such a long lockin. self-select and 1 year seem like the best rates vs. timeframe trade-off to me.
    • keyboardworrier
    • By keyboardworrier 27th Oct 18, 12:50 PM
    • 122 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    keyboardworrier
    I still have a 5 figure sum with them, and that's after withdrawing capital when repaid.

    Also no defaults - but I have no defaults in P2P at all on any platform too be fair. I'm VERY picky when self-selecting loans and when I look at the MT / Lendy and FS defaults, I really wonder how many of these got funded. Kuflink seem to more picky who they'll lend to.

    Since I've been with them I've seen rates drop from 7.2%-7% ish down to the 6 range, whereas many other sites rates are going up.

    But it's a good option I feel for diversification. I always wished there was a secondary market, that stopped me putting in more. I wouldn't want to be in the 3 or 5 year markets, the rates are far too low for such a long lockin. self-select and 1 year seem like the best rates vs. timeframe trade-off to me.
    Originally posted by bxboards

    According to the Kuflink rep on the P2P independent forum a secondary market should be coming at some point in the future.



    I wouldn't touch the 1/3/5 year markets either unless there was a very good (better than the 3% they normally offer) cashback offer on, and even then I would think twice due to the absolutely ridiculous situations I find myself in with Lendy and Collateral!
    Last edited by keyboardworrier; 27-10-2018 at 12:55 PM.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 27th Oct 18, 1:05 PM
    • 1,611 Posts
    • 1,260 Thanks
    bxboards
    According to the Kuflink rep on the P2P independent forum a secondary market should be coming at some point in the future.



    I wouldn't touch the 1/3/5 year markets either unless there was a very good (better than the 3% they normally offer) cashback offer on, and even then I would think twice due to the absolutely ridiculous situations I find myself in with Lendy and Collateral!
    Originally posted by keyboardworrier
    I'm in a couple of 1 year self-selects but that was when they were offering 3% cashback on 1 year. Guess that's an advantage of being an early adopter!

    Commiserations on Lendy - some of the loans there are ridiculous. I see the 'recievership' loans are having huge defaults - I can't understand how P2P lenders were hoodwinked into essentially bailing out the borrower. How on earth did that ever get put on the platform? Plus the borrower who isn't paying in London and now suing everyone. That loan was obviously a 10 foot barge pole loan and should never have been offered. This isn't hindsight being 20/20, its basic economics. Shocking platform.
    Last edited by bxboards; 27-10-2018 at 1:07 PM. Reason: borrower, not lender!
    • Nardge
    • By Nardge 27th Oct 18, 1:20 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Nardge
    No doubt if they decide it is necessary of older accounts it will be a prerequisite of withdrawing funds. Otherwise it would be clear that it isn't really necessary. Let's hope our existing electronic verification is deemed sufficient.
    Originally posted by masonic
    I'm not sure they'd be allowed to make it a prerequisite as you state.
    Surely they'd be breaking the 'terms and conditions' agreed at the time you joined...

    They didn't write and you did not agree to:

    'You agree to Kuflink implementing facial recognition technology in the future, at a time stipulated by Kuflink, in order that you be permitted to withdraw your funds at that time'...

    Kind Regards
    • masonic
    • By masonic 27th Oct 18, 2:40 PM
    • 10,135 Posts
    • 7,427 Thanks
    masonic
    I'm not sure they'd be allowed to make it a prerequisite as you state.
    Surely they'd be breaking the 'terms and conditions' agreed at the time you joined...

    They didn't write and you did not agree to:

    'You agree to Kuflink implementing facial recognition technology in the future, at a time stipulated by Kuflink, in order that you be permitted to withdraw your funds at that time'...

    Kind Regards
    Originally posted by Nardge
    https://www.kuflink.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/
    "15.1. We may make changes to these Investor Terms and Conditions from time to time without your consent for any of the following reasons:
    ...
    to reflect changes in law, regulation, industry guidance or a decision of a court or by a regulator or ombudsman."


    You should also note they didn't write and you did not agree to any form of AML checks being carried out on you, but you can be sure that there were such checks. So that suggests they can and will subject you to things that aren't mentioned in the T&C.

    If Kuflink has reached the position that it is their legal requirement to hold certain verification data on all of their customers, then it follows that allowing anyone to withdraw money from the platform without completing such verification would be unlawful in their eyes. It would not be the first company to subject customers to new AML measures before allowing them to leave.
    Last edited by masonic; 27-10-2018 at 2:52 PM.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 28th Oct 18, 10:45 AM
    • 1,611 Posts
    • 1,260 Thanks
    bxboards
    https://www.kuflink.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/
    "15.1. We may make changes to these Investor Terms and Conditions from time to time without your consent for any of the following reasons:
    ...
    to reflect changes in law, regulation, industry guidance or a decision of a court or by a regulator or ombudsman."



    If Kuflink has reached the position that it is their legal requirement to hold certain verification data on all of their customers, then it follows that allowing anyone to withdraw money from the platform without completing such verification would be unlawful in their eyes. It would not be the first company to subject customers to new AML measures before allowing them to leave.
    Originally posted by masonic
    I can't understand how doing a selfie proves anything? Lets assume I want to withdraw a soon to maturing investment, and they tell me they need a selfie. I could literally get anyone to do that for me, withdraw the money, and never use the platform again. I can't see how an uncertified photo proves anythings.

    Often banks if they can't verify you electronically request a passport scan or drivers licence, and even request they are 'certified' by a solicitor / doctor etc who can confirm you are who you say you are. I just can't see how an unverified snap with a camera phone would carry more weight than the the above process.

    Seems like using technology for the sake of it to me, and I can see no evidence of any industry guidance requiring this right now.

    Anyhow, it's all moot at the moment, I will be doing a 5 figure withdrawal shortly, I won't be impressed if at this stage they decide to do that having been using then for 18 months prior without.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 28th Oct 18, 10:51 AM
    • 1,611 Posts
    • 1,260 Thanks
    bxboards

    Platforms need to start behaving in a responsible manner very quickly before anything else happens.
    Originally posted by keyboardworrier
    Agreed, but lenders who still invest when there is some fantastic crowd DD going on in several places also share part of the blame.

    For me once I saw the BVI link and attempts to sell the property previously for years below the loan value where enough. How many red flags do folks need? I think greed when some lenders see double digit interest rates outweighs commonsense.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 28th Oct 18, 10:54 AM
    • 10,135 Posts
    • 7,427 Thanks
    masonic
    I can't understand how doing a selfie proves anything? Lets assume I want to withdraw a soon to maturing investment, and they tell me they need a selfie. I could literally get anyone to do that for me, withdraw the money, and never use the platform again. I can't see how an uncertified photo proves anythings.

    Often banks if they can't verify you electronically request a passport scan or drivers licence, and even request they are 'certified' by a solicitor / doctor etc who can confirm you are who you say you are. I just can't see how an unverified snap with a camera phone would carry more weight than the the above process.

    Seems like using technology for the sake of it to me, and I can see no evidence of any industry guidance requiring this right now.

    Anyhow, it's all moot at the moment, I will be doing a 5 figure withdrawal shortly, I won't be impressed if at this stage they decide to do that having been using then for 18 months prior without.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    I agree with all of that. Presumably, in Kuflink's opinion, this is equivalent to the situation where you go into a branch with ID and they can attest that the person in possession of the ID document is a true likeness of the photograph. But this could be done offline and a certified copy sent to them, as you mention is perfectly acceptable to others.

    As I've said elsewhere, it presents a significant challenge to capture and transmit the image/video in such a way that it cannot have been tampered with (e.g. offline image/video fed through virtual cam on device). They also need to protect the information and ensure it is not possible for someone to steal the data and use it fraudulently elsewhere. I suppose if they do some sort of live link where they have a conversation with you, that might work, but that's not what they are doing.
    • keyboardworrier
    • By keyboardworrier 28th Oct 18, 11:36 AM
    • 122 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    keyboardworrier
    Agreed, but lenders who still invest when there is some fantastic crowd DD going on in several places also share part of the blame.

    For me once I saw the BVI link and attempts to sell the property previously for years below the loan value where enough. How many red flags do folks need? I think greed when some lenders see double digit interest rates outweighs commonsense.
    Originally posted by bxboards

    I hold my hands up and say that I should have been more careful, but I believed in mass diversification at the time. The platform should be the first line of defence when it comes to DD and I hope lessons can be learnt!


    Hopefully, one of the benefits of investing with platforms such as Kuflink and Octopus Choice is that they invest with us, which I would like to believe means they do better DD in all aspects of the loan because it means their capital is also at risk.
    Last edited by keyboardworrier; 28-10-2018 at 3:28 PM.
    • Nardge
    • By Nardge 30th Oct 18, 8:01 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Nardge
    Just to confirm that LTM1988 was true to his word and forwarded my share of his bonus as per the old Kuflink thread. Excellent communication throughout too
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 9th Nov 18, 6:18 PM
    • 3,658 Posts
    • 2,996 Thanks
    Alexland
    Kuflink have just increased their generosity for this weekend.

    For each referral, you’ll now receive:

    250 cashback for 5000+
    100 cashback for 1000 - 4999.99 investments
    50 cashback for 500 - 999.99 investments

    You can now receive up to 7% interest per annum on both our Auto-Invest & IF-ISA accounts as part of our weekend rate boost.

    1 Year Fixed Term @ 5% pa
    3 Year Fixed Term @ 6.1% pa
    5 Year Fixed Term @ 7% pa
    • masonic
    • By masonic 9th Nov 18, 6:22 PM
    • 10,135 Posts
    • 7,427 Thanks
    masonic
    Worth pointing out that you can also invest in self-select loans at 6-7.2% with shorter terms than the above.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 9th Nov 18, 6:39 PM
    • 1,611 Posts
    • 1,260 Thanks
    bxboards
    I can't really see the point in Kuflink self-select as the deal flow is good enough that you can diversify easily enough, might as well get 6.2% to 7.2% doing it yourself and not such a long lock in in most cases.

    I'm in auto-invest but only as at the time there was 3% cashback so it worked out at 6.99% for the 1 year, otherwise I used self-select. No defaults, I think their DD is generally good.

    I suspect Kuflink use the auto-accounts to effectively underwrite some loans to ensure they are funded, which is fine, but I can't any sense in doing a 3 year lock in for 7% when you can just self-select at that rate and have a much earlier exit.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 9th Nov 18, 6:49 PM
    • 3,658 Posts
    • 2,996 Thanks
    Alexland
    I suspect Kuflink use the auto-accounts to effectively underwrite some loans to ensure they are funded, which is fine, but I can't any sense in doing a 3 year lock in for 7% when you can just self-select at that rate and have a much earlier exit.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    I agree the backing data on exactly how your auto invest is invested isn't particularly clear and I have given up trying to track it. I guess they figure that they wouldn't let any customer in that product suffer a loss so it probably doesn't matter anyway so they can use the money how they please to cover their loan obligations.

    I will still be closing our accounts after the 12 months is up.

    Alex
    • masonic
    • By masonic 9th Nov 18, 6:58 PM
    • 10,135 Posts
    • 7,427 Thanks
    masonic
    I can't really see the point in Kuflink self-select as the deal flow is good enough that you can diversify easily enough, might as well get 6.2% to 7.2% doing it yourself and not such a long lock in in most cases.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    Did you really mean you can't see the point in self-select, or did you mean auto-invest? The rest of the sentence seems to support the latter.
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