Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • freyac
    • By freyac 17th May 18, 6:33 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 0Thanks
    freyac
    Dispute regarding carpets
    • #1
    • 17th May 18, 6:33 PM
    Dispute regarding carpets 17th May 18 at 6:33 PM
    We've just moved out of our rental property and handed the keys back. The agent is proposing the landlord keeps the entire deposit of around £1200 as the wool carpets were damaged, which we do not dispute. Our dog lived in the property which was agreed by landlord but due to serious illness which our dog sadly died from, vomited on the carpets many times. We cleared up every time but it did leave stains. We employed a professional carpet cleaner at the end of the tenancy who made the stains worse by using the wrong products on the carpets. We are pursuing this issue separately.

    When we moved in 3.5 years ago, the carpets were graded by independent inventory clerk as is in a fair condition due to wear and very minor stains. We estimate the carpets were 2 years old when we moved in.

    The agent has advised that the carpets had an expected lifespan of 25 years. I believe this is extremely optimistic given the condition after 2 years. Most of the guidelines I have looked at for carpet lifespan state 10 - 15 years for the highest quality, and there is no evidence that these carpets were of such quality.

    I would like to dispute the amount the landlord is proposing to keep of our deposit but need some advice regarding whether this lifespan is realistic.
Page 1
    • anselld
    • By anselld 17th May 18, 6:38 PM
    • 5,720 Posts
    • 5,384 Thanks
    anselld
    • #2
    • 17th May 18, 6:38 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 18, 6:38 PM
    Wool carpets are at the high end of quality, however 25 years is extremely optimistic for a rental.

    I would say 10 is reasonable max, so to avoid betterment you should be paying no more than 50% of the replacement cost of a good quality carpet.

    The unfortunate circumstances of your dog and the L permission do not change your liability, it is just a question of agreeing a fair price.

    Ask to see three quotes and then offer half. Otherwise dispute via the protection scheme.
    • capital0ne
    • By capital0ne 17th May 18, 6:48 PM
    • 475 Posts
    • 236 Thanks
    capital0ne
    • #3
    • 17th May 18, 6:48 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 18, 6:48 PM
    Our dog lived in the property which was agreed by landlord but due to serious illness which our dog sadly died from, vomited on the carpets many times.
    Originally posted by freyac
    I'm very sorry your dog has passed away. I'm also sorry he/she was so ill it led to vomiting.
    Now the harsh bit, the dog vomited once - not good but you cleaned up as well as you could. Second time, the dog is sick, hmmm, not good, but maybe expected, maybe not, and you cleaned up again.
    Now the harsh bit, to let your ill dog continue throwing up on the carpet is to me just sheer negligence and I would have felt so guilty I would have offered to replace the carpet on moving out.

    Put yourself in the new tenants position, they ask the landlord about the stains on the carpet and he says, Oh, the last tenants had a poorly dog that kept on vomiting on the carpet and sadly the dog passed on. It's not a problem the carpet's been cleaned. Would you be happy to move in, with say a toddler crawling all over the stained carpet?

    Once again, very distressing and I'm sorry for your loss, hope it was resolved properly.
    • missprice
    • By missprice 17th May 18, 7:21 PM
    • 3,341 Posts
    • 106,324 Thanks
    missprice
    • #4
    • 17th May 18, 7:21 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 18, 7:21 PM
    I'm very sorry your dog has passed away. I'm also sorry he/she was so ill it led to vomiting.
    Now the harsh bit, the dog vomited once - not good but you cleaned up as well as you could. Second time, the dog is sick, hmmm, not good, but maybe expected, maybe not, and you cleaned up again.
    Now the harsh bit, to let your ill dog continue throwing up on the carpet is to me just sheer negligence and I would have felt so guilty I would have offered to replace the carpet on moving out.

    Put yourself in the new tenants position, they ask the landlord about the stains on the carpet and he says, Oh, the last tenants had a poorly dog that kept on vomiting on the carpet and sadly the dog passed on. It's not a problem the carpet's been cleaned. Would you be happy to move in, with say a toddler crawling all over the stained carpet?

    Once again, very distressing and I'm sorry for your loss, hope it was resolved properly.
    Originally posted by capital0ne
    Clean is clean, if there are just stains after its been properly cleaned then no one is in danger. Even toddlers who btw stick all sorts of things in their mouth.

    And the law is the end of the matter.
    No landlord is entitled to a brand new carpet (or anything else) for a used carpet, sick or no sick.
    The only thing OP has to do is negotiate the expected life of a carpet and make restitution.
    63 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 !!!128549;
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 17th May 18, 7:30 PM
    • 17,377 Posts
    • 15,712 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #5
    • 17th May 18, 7:30 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 18, 7:30 PM
    The cause of the carpet staining is irrelevant. The carpet is stained and needs replacing.

    The landlord is entitled to recompense for the diminution of remaining life. If it's 5.5yo, and has an expected life of 10yrs, then you owe 45% of the replacement cost. If it was "fair" and "worn" after 2yrs, it did not have a 10yr life. It maybe had a 5yr life, in which case, you owe 0%.

    Let the deposit arbitration decide.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 17th May 18, 8:03 PM
    • 8,048 Posts
    • 8,895 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #6
    • 17th May 18, 8:03 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 18, 8:03 PM
    carpets last 25 years in a rented property? I don't think so!!!

    I'd expect more like 5 years and mydeposits.co.uk agrees with me.

    So at 5.5 years since fitting the carpets are effectively worthless and the landlord has suffered no loss.

    I'd suggest offering 10% (£120) as full and final offer and making it clear that if this is refused absolutely no deduction from the deposit will be negotiated without sight of the original receipt showing the type and cost of carpet originally fitted. (and the depreciation is calculated according to the cost of what was originally fitted, not what the landlord wants to replace it with).

    Sorry to read about your dog.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 18th May 18, 7:55 AM
    • 5,371 Posts
    • 7,539 Thanks
    deannatrois
    • #7
    • 18th May 18, 7:55 AM
    • #7
    • 18th May 18, 7:55 AM
    I'm afraid although losing your dog is a terribly upsetting thing (I have two wonderful dogs myself and lost one a few years ago, it still is upsetting) I suspect the carpet could have been cleaned so stains didn't show (by yourself).

    You have pets, these things can happen (and lets face it humans can cause similar stains). I always make sure no trace of it remains (and who wants to walk/sit on whatever is causing the stain?) Even without a shampooer, with the aid of biological washing powder/liquid and towels to dry it up after cleaning., no carpet has to have a lasting stain. You could have protected the carpet, kept the sick dog in one protected area etc. Its a disgusting stomach churning thing to do but I have cleaned up some really yukky messes myself, to save trouble in the long run! Mind you, its been decades since I haven't had a shampooer in some form available because of these messes, I have to admit lol.

    I am just trying to illustrate how these things can be dealt with so issues like you are having with the deposit don't even come up.

    I would also have tried to rinse the stain the carpet cleaners left out before giving up. If they used bleach (or whatever chemical caused the problem), they shouldn't have without testing the carpet first. If you have any before and after (cleaning) photos I'd try making a claim against the cleaning company.

    BUT, now it has happened, I would suggest that you stop dealing with the LL, and go through your deposit protection scheme. You shouldn't be paying for new carpets, whatever happens. Do you know if the carpet was actually wool, how expensive it was? I suspect the LL is trying it on. I can't see how you should lose your whole deposit for one carpet in one room that was 5 half years old by the time you left.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 18-05-2018 at 8:09 AM.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th May 18, 8:12 AM
    • 15,607 Posts
    • 43,334 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #8
    • 18th May 18, 8:12 AM
    • #8
    • 18th May 18, 8:12 AM
    The thought of what has happened to those carpets - ie a dog repeatedly being sick on them - is something that would cause me as tenant to think "I can't expect anyone else to have to live with those carpets - even if they weren't stained or damaged by wrong cleaner being used".

    As a new tenant - I would want those carpets out pronto - as the mere thought of what had happened would put me right off.

    So I agree with the landlord/lady personally and would be replacing the carpets with new ones and expect you to be the ones to pay for it (it was your dog that was being repeatedly sick like this).

    I don't think it's appropriate to look for relevant laws to help out with not paying the cost in full here. It's appropriate behaviour to not expect anyone else to put up with carpets that have had that happening to them.
    Like Frankie said - I did it my way.
    It's MY life......
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 18th May 18, 8:18 AM
    • 37,225 Posts
    • 156,843 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #9
    • 18th May 18, 8:18 AM
    • #9
    • 18th May 18, 8:18 AM
    carpets last 25 years in a rented property? I don't think so!!!
    You can buy carpets, particularly wool carpets, that will last 25 years. Why does the fact they are in a rental property change that?
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th May 18, 8:26 AM
    • 15,607 Posts
    • 43,334 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    You can buy carpets, particularly wool carpets, that will last 25 years. Why does the fact they are in a rental property change that?
    Originally posted by silvercar
    Agreed with that too.

    I bought all the carpets for current house in my early 60s when I got the house.

    I don't expect to have to replace them ever - at my age.
    Like Frankie said - I did it my way.
    It's MY life......
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 18th May 18, 8:48 AM
    • 25,044 Posts
    • 92,575 Thanks
    Davesnave
    You can buy carpets, particularly wool carpets, that will last 25 years. Why does the fact they are in a rental property change that?
    Originally posted by silvercar
    The appropriateness for the property concerned is of relevance here. I'm not sure we know about that.

    One can buy all kinds of expensive or antique stuff, but putting it into a £650 pm rental and then claiming the full amount if it's damaged would hardly be fair.
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 18th May 18, 8:51 AM
    • 25,044 Posts
    • 92,575 Thanks
    Davesnave
    I don't think it's appropriate to look for relevant laws to help out with not paying the cost in full here. I.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Have you forgotten which web site you're posting on?
    'It's a terrible thing to wait until you're ready…..Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.' Hugh Lawrie.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 18th May 18, 9:00 AM
    • 17,377 Posts
    • 15,712 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I bought all the carpets for current house in my early 60s when I got the house.

    I don't expect to have to replace them ever - at my age.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    "They'll see me out..." - those (im)mortal words that you can read into the dogeared RightMove photos of every single threadbare probate-sale property...


    Seriously, though. It's a simple fact of life that things like carpets in rental properties have to expect a harder life than in owner-occupied properties. And it's not financially sensible to spend top dollar on top quality unless you're dealing with a seriously top-end property - in which case, life expectancy will still be shorter, simply because they will need to be in absolute top-notch condition at every check-in.


    Equally, buying the cheapest rubbish is a false economy, simply because it won't last ten minutes.
    • Rambosmum
    • By Rambosmum 18th May 18, 9:04 AM
    • 1,673 Posts
    • 2,191 Thanks
    Rambosmum
    Was the deposit protected? If so go through the scheme, with a view to paying 50% of the replacement costs as stated above.


    If it wasn't protected, well... we all know how that ends.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 18th May 18, 9:16 AM
    • 422 Posts
    • 482 Thanks
    need an answer
    I suppose the question to ask is in losing the £1200 deposit is that only sufficient to cover a percentage of the replacement costs of the carpet.

    Was it just one carpet or several?

    7 Years ago we had wool carpets fitted in our house in 2 rooms hall stairs and landing and the cost came to well in excess of £1200.
    They are still extremely serviceable and look in very good condition so whilst I acknowledge that there needs to be a sliding scale for "carpet life" defined by DPS or whomever 5 years may not be realistic for a total carpet change in all circumstances.
    I don't agree that rental properties take more of a hit over owner occupier in fact I would say that some of my tenants treat the carpet in a much better fashion than I would!

    I'm just saying that if the problem extended throughout the house then its not inconceivable that the deposit will only fund some of the replacement costs.
    Last edited by need an answer; 18-05-2018 at 9:18 AM.
    in S 31 T 20 F 42
    out S 40 T 25 F 32
    2017 -32
    • elsien
    • By elsien 18th May 18, 9:17 AM
    • 16,373 Posts
    • 41,388 Thanks
    elsien
    For those being precious about the cause of the stains being a dog being sick, any tenants with children have potentially had vomiting and assorted other bodily fluids leaking onto the carpet from nappies.
    Or indeed those without children but with more interesting life styles. No one expects carpets to be replaced following each tenancy in these circumstances if they're properly cleaned and the stains lifted.

    Not relevant to the OP who acknowledges the carpets are now beyond redemption due to the cleaner, but a general comment that if you think too hard about previous tenants and what they may/may not have dropped, maybe renting isn't for you.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • missprice
    • By missprice 18th May 18, 11:35 AM
    • 3,341 Posts
    • 106,324 Thanks
    missprice
    The thought of what has happened to those carpets - ie a dog repeatedly being sick on them - is something that would cause me as tenant to think "I can't expect anyone else to have to live with those carpets - even if they weren't stained or damaged by wrong cleaner being used".

    As a new tenant - I would want those carpets out pronto - as the mere thought of what had happened would put me right off.

    So I agree with the landlord/lady personally and would be replacing the carpets with new ones and expect you to be the ones to pay for it (it was your dog that was being repeatedly sick like this).

    I don't think it's appropriate to look for relevant laws to help out with not paying the cost in full here. It's appropriate behaviour to not expect anyone else to put up with carpets that have had that happening to them.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Dear god, how would you know what happened on the carpets?
    I had toddlers once upon a time many years ago. They threw up, had toilet accidents, and once spectacularly deliberately blocked the toilet with toys and flushed til there was a tsunami down the stairs (not on my watch btw)
    When I sold the house, no one asked about stains.

    This doesn't sound like a mega high end rental going by the deposit. I would bet actual money the landlord doesn't replace with nearly the same quality as is allegedly in now.

    And the law about what can be deducted from deposits is in place precisely because landlords took the Michael. You can't simply ignore it.
    63 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 !!!128549;
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 18th May 18, 12:27 PM
    • 1,096 Posts
    • 1,731 Thanks
    parkrunner
    I suppose the question to ask is in losing the £1200 deposit is that only sufficient to cover a percentage of the replacement costs of the carpet.

    Was it just one carpet or several?
    Originally posted by need an answer
    Good question. OP how many square metres are needed to replace the damaged carpets?
    • D_M_E
    • By D_M_E 18th May 18, 1:00 PM
    • 1,478 Posts
    • 63,465 Thanks
    D_M_E
    As advised you need to dispute it with the deposit scheme and point out that on your move in inventory they werte listed as being worn and with minor - whatever that means - stains present.

    Accept that more "minor" stains were caused during your occupancy and make an offer of £50 or £100 max to cover this and let the scheme decide.

    Don't argue anymore, go straight to the scheme and let them arbitrate and decide.
    • westernpromise
    • By westernpromise 18th May 18, 5:16 PM
    • 3,813 Posts
    • 4,932 Thanks
    westernpromise
    I have a 2-bed rental, and a few tenancies ago, the tenant on checkout indicated that a carpet stain on one room had been caused by a bottle of hair dye having been overturned.

    The carpets were new when they arrived but they'd been there 3 years; only one room was affected. The bill for fitting the underlay and the carpets was IIRC about £4k, so my proposal was

    - assume carpets last 7 years so 4 more left
    - assume half the cost was the underlay
    - so the current value of all the carpets if intact would be 4/7 * 50% of £4,000 which is £1,142
    - the flat has four areas of roughly similar size - 2x bedroom, 1x lounge, 1x hallway / stairs
    - only one area has been stained, which is 25% of all the carpets
    - therefore my loss is 25% of £1,142, or £285
    - why don't we call it £200, because the mark's in a corner?

    The tenants agreed to this, but in the course of the amicable discussion (they started out a bit defensive because they assumed I'd demand £4,000 or something mad, then relaxed a bit) it transpired that their contents insurance would have paid for this anyway!
    Buying a house, if you believe the market has a way to fall, or if you are paying sill asking prices ( like some sheeple ) or if you are buying in London, is now a massive financial gamble!!!!! - June 8, 2012 by TheCountOfNowhere
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,721Posts Today

7,485Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin