Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Daverogers
    • By Daverogers 17th May 18, 2:00 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Daverogers
    Buying new home after separation.
    • #1
    • 17th May 18, 2:00 PM
    Buying new home after separation. 17th May 18 at 2:00 PM
    Iíve been separated from my wife for 3 years. I want to buy a new home now. My wife and her mother are the only person named on the mortgage and always has been. We have a separation agreement which states I have no legal interest in the house.

    My question is as I wasnít on the legal paperwork for the house so will I be liable to pay extra stamp duty on my new home.
Page 1
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 17th May 18, 2:13 PM
    • 9,852 Posts
    • 11,017 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #2
    • 17th May 18, 2:13 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 18, 2:13 PM
    is your name on the deeds of the old house? If not, then no.

    Edit: unless still married ! (See below)
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 17-05-2018 at 2:54 PM.
    • Daverogers
    • By Daverogers 17th May 18, 2:14 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Daverogers
    • #3
    • 17th May 18, 2:14 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 18, 2:14 PM
    No it!!!8217;s not nothing at all
    • Daverogers
    • By Daverogers 17th May 18, 2:16 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Daverogers
    • #4
    • 17th May 18, 2:16 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 18, 2:16 PM
    But my solicitor is insisting it is still considered my second home
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 17th May 18, 2:17 PM
    • 9,852 Posts
    • 11,017 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #5
    • 17th May 18, 2:17 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 18, 2:17 PM
    On what grounds?
    • Daverogers
    • By Daverogers 17th May 18, 2:24 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Daverogers
    • #6
    • 17th May 18, 2:24 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 18, 2:24 PM
    She claims as we were married I owned the home too.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 17th May 18, 2:53 PM
    • 9,852 Posts
    • 11,017 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #7
    • 17th May 18, 2:53 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 18, 2:53 PM
    Ah, that makes sense , a married couple count as one unit irrespective of ownership, otherwise every couple could own two houses between them and drive a coach and horses through the intent of the bill

    There may be exceptions for separation, ISTR "something" and you can research, but I think you may have to get divorced.

    Ps I think your solicitor is not saying as you were married you "owned" the house, she is saying that as you are married, you count as having an interest in a house (as part of a couple) for the purposes of additional SDLT . Once you get divorced that no longer applies.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 17-05-2018 at 2:58 PM.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 17th May 18, 3:17 PM
    • 9,852 Posts
    • 11,017 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #8
    • 17th May 18, 3:17 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 18, 3:17 PM
    Here we go see if this helps https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/aug/14/buying-flat-separating-higher-stamp-duty-refund
    • SDLT Geek
    • By SDLT Geek 17th May 18, 8:24 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    SDLT Geek
    • #9
    • 17th May 18, 8:24 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 18, 8:24 PM
    It does not matter much whether you are !!!8220;on the mortgage!!!8221; or !!!8220;on the deeds!!!8221; of the old house. The first thing that matters is whether you have an underlying share in the property and whether that is worth £40k or more. From what you say, it seems not.

    The next thing that matters is whether your spouse will be deemed to be a joint buyer with you for higher rates purposes. A spouse is not treated as a joint buyer if separated in circumstances likely to prove permanent. Again it sounds as if you are long term and permanently separated.

    Spouses are not treated as a single unit!
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 18th May 18, 8:34 AM
    • 9,852 Posts
    • 11,017 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    SDLTgeek do you know how OP can show that he is separated in a way that HMRC acknowledges ? Does he need something offficial such asa court document ?

    And just to question your last statement, surely spouses normally are treated asa single until ?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 18th May 18, 11:16 AM
    • 44,743 Posts
    • 53,230 Thanks
    G_M
    After 3 years, and given you are planning to buy a property separately from your spouse, why on earth are you still married?
    • SDLT Geek
    • By SDLT Geek 18th May 18, 9:43 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    SDLT Geek
    SDLTgeek do you know how OP can show that he is separated in a way that HMRC acknowledges ? Does he need something offficial such asa court document ?
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    OP says he has a separation agreement. That would be a good start. Proof of different addresses over the last three years would help too. If HMRC query it after the event, then the fact that OP is buying a property for his own use (not for his wife to live in too) would be persuasive as well.
    Last edited by SDLT Geek; 18-05-2018 at 9:52 PM.
    • SDLT Geek
    • By SDLT Geek 18th May 18, 9:52 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    SDLT Geek
    SDLTgeek Ö... And just to question your last statement, surely spouses normally are treated asa single until ?
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    I find it can lead one astray in many cases to say spouses are treated as a single unit. It certainly does not say that in the legislation. Nor does it in the HMRC Guidance. There is a lone reference to it in the original consultation document of 2015 as I recall it.


    There are special rules about married couples who are not separated. One of them is that is one spouse buys a property alone then for the purposes of the higher rates the other is treated as a joint buyer. Other rules can allow one spouse who has lived in a home belonging to the other to rely on a disposal by the other spouse for the purpose of getting within the replacement exception.


    So sometimes it might be a convenient (though sloppy) shorthand to say that spouses are treated as a single unit, and that way of thinking about it gives the right result in some cases, but not all.


    For some examples where very different results arise see here: https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/news-events/blog/hmrc-updated-guidance-sdlt/
    • Daverogers
    • By Daverogers 19th May 18, 2:24 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Daverogers
    I find it can lead one astray in many cases to say spouses are treated as a single unit. It certainly does not say that in the legislation. Nor does it in the HMRC Guidance. There is a lone reference to it in the original consultation document of 2015 as I recall it.


    There are special rules about married couples who are not separated. One of them is that is one spouse buys a property alone then for the purposes of the higher rates the other is treated as a joint buyer. Other rules can allow one spouse who has lived in a home belonging to the other to rely on a disposal by the other spouse for the purpose of getting within the replacement exception.


    So sometimes it might be a convenient (though sloppy) shorthand to say that spouses are treated as a single unit, and that way of thinking about it gives the right result in some cases, but not all.


    For some examples where very different results arise see here: https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/news-events/blog/hmrc-updated-guidance-sdlt/
    Originally posted by SDLT Geek
    Thanks so much for this. It makes sense to me now. I can prove we are not together and we have done our own separation agreement just not thru courts so I can prove we have no interest in Each other property.

    For this who are wondering why we have not divorced. To be honest we just have not got around to it.

    You guys are so helpful. Iíll keep you updated.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 19th May 18, 4:29 PM
    • 9,852 Posts
    • 11,017 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Thanks so much for this. It makes sense to me now. I can prove we are not together and we have done our own separation agreement just not thru courts so I can prove we have no interest in each other property.

    For this who are wondering why we have not divorced. To be honest we just have not got around to it.

    You guys are so helpful. Iíll keep you updated.
    Originally posted by Daverogers
    You will have to prove it to HMRC and get a statement from them agreeing to that to present to your solicitor.

    I feel confident it would be easier to get divorced.
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 19th May 18, 4:32 PM
    • 22,778 Posts
    • 57,160 Thanks
    Tigsteroonie
    If I were you, I'd get around to that divorce. It will make things easier for more than just the house, for example, have you written a will since? If you die intestate, she'll inherit.
    Mrs Marleyboy

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    Proud Parents to an Au-some son
    • SDLT Geek
    • By SDLT Geek 19th May 18, 7:07 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    SDLT Geek
    I would also wonder whether the home-made separation agreement is effective to transfer away from OP his share in the former marital home. Normally a deed is needed.

    So perhaps OP still has a share in the property and will (even though separated) be hit by the higher rates of SDLT on the purchase unless OP can first dispose of the share in the property.
    • Daverogers
    • By Daverogers 20th May 18, 2:39 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Daverogers
    I!!!8217;m going to ring h,roc stamp duty help line Monday I!!!8217;ll let you all know.
    • Daverogers
    • By Daverogers 23rd May 18, 11:47 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Daverogers
    Ive spoke to HMRC stampduty department. They have advised me as long as I can prove we have been apart and will not be together thats good enough. I do not need a legal separation. However I will be filing for divorce shortly but at least I can buy my house.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,237Posts Today

7,423Users online

Martin's Twitter