Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Worried pensioner
    • By Worried pensioner 17th May 18, 12:10 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Worried pensioner
    BT at it again
    • #1
    • 17th May 18, 12:10 PM
    BT at it again 17th May 18 at 12:10 PM
    Strange Bt is trying to wriggle out of its commitments again. When the government changed the rule from RPI to CPI the pension scheme was mirroring the civil service scheme. We now have a letter saying they are a private scheme and want to change the rule's on GMP. Going to court again on the 29th of June . This could have a huge impact on people I hope that the trustees are representing the members this time.
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 17th May 18, 12:12 PM
    • 33,028 Posts
    • 38,600 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 17th May 18, 12:12 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 18, 12:12 PM
    https://news.sky.com/story/bt-sparks-legal-fight-with-government-over-pension-reforms-11359473
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 17th May 18, 2:54 PM
    • 3,096 Posts
    • 2,015 Thanks
    greenglide
    • #3
    • 17th May 18, 2:54 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 18, 2:54 PM
    Is this about inflation proofing of the GMP?


    Government "took it away from everybody" in the implementation of the new State Pension and then had to give it back in public sector schemes (due to equalisation of pension ages complicating issues).


    So public sector gets the GMP inflation proofing (and even better off as no link to the AP/COD when paid with the state pension) but private sector just gets the inflation proofing of the GMP in the state pension totally stripped out.


    I blame the government over this - they should never have taken it away or if they did they should have told the truth rather than pretending that it never existed in the first place.
    Last edited by greenglide; 17-05-2018 at 2:54 PM. Reason: spelling
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 17th May 18, 4:33 PM
    • 25,371 Posts
    • 14,967 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #4
    • 17th May 18, 4:33 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 18, 4:33 PM
    See http://www.btpensionersreconnect.co.uk/GMP_Updated_Version_6a_30th_April_2018.pdf
    • Worried pensioner
    • By Worried pensioner 17th May 18, 5:02 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Worried pensioner
    • #5
    • 17th May 18, 5:02 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 18, 5:02 PM
    What a difference a month can make while the information was posted in April .BT has now decided to challenge the ruling in the high court . They essentially want to get the ruling overturned. I would encourage all section B members who will be affected to get involved.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 17th May 18, 5:08 PM
    • 4,983 Posts
    • 5,550 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #6
    • 17th May 18, 5:08 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 18, 5:08 PM
    What a difference a month can make while the information was posted in April .BT has now decided to challenge the ruling in the high court . They essentially want to get the ruling overturned. I would encourage all section B members who will be affected to get involved.
    Originally posted by Worried pensioner
    If like me you are a section B member, then you have been on CPI for some considerable time, it is section C members who are affected by this.
    • Worried pensioner
    • By Worried pensioner 17th May 18, 5:31 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Worried pensioner
    • #7
    • 17th May 18, 5:31 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 18, 5:31 PM
    Yes I know that but this is a different issue. Relating to the GMP portion of your pension which will lose increases in the future if BT is successful.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 17th May 18, 8:26 PM
    • 25,371 Posts
    • 14,967 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #8
    • 17th May 18, 8:26 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 18, 8:26 PM
    If like me you are a section B member, then you have been on CPI for some considerable time, it is section C members who are affected by this.
    This latest challenge is specifically related to GMP - see link in post above which contains a link to the govt decision in respect of public service schemes.
    • fwor
    • By fwor 17th May 18, 11:49 PM
    • 5,993 Posts
    • 4,049 Thanks
    fwor
    • #9
    • 17th May 18, 11:49 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 18, 11:49 PM
    Looks like BT want it both ways, don't they? When the government makes a change that allows them to chop their indexing from RPI to CPI (CPI being a completely inappropriate "artificially modified" index for the purpose) they grab it with unseemly haste.

    But when the government makes a change that's not to the advantage of their senior management's bonuses, they immediately start moaning.

    I would encourage all section B members who will be affected to get involved.
    Originally posted by Worried pensioner

    What involvement would you suggest? IIRC there was an official petition over the RPI to CPI funds grab, and that was simply ignored in parliament, even though it got enough numbers to get a debate?
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 18th May 18, 12:36 AM
    • 2,119 Posts
    • 1,630 Thanks
    hyubh
    Looks like BT want it both ways, don't they? When the government makes a change that allows them to chop their indexing from RPI to CPI (CPI being a completely inappropriate "artificially modified" index for the purpose) they grab it with unseemly haste.

    But when the government makes a change that's not to the advantage of their senior management's bonuses, they immediately start moaning.
    Originally posted by fwor
    This is incorrect, paying full increases on GMP is a retrospective liability being imposed, and wasn't foreseeable. As greenglide says, on this issue it's the government that has backed out of previous promises, not the scheme.
    • fwor
    • By fwor 18th May 18, 1:16 AM
    • 5,993 Posts
    • 4,049 Thanks
    fwor
    This is incorrect, paying full increases on GMP is a retrospective liability being imposed, and wasn't foreseeable. As greenglide says, on this issue it's the government that has backed out of previous promises, not the scheme.
    Originally posted by hyubh

    So are you saying that Worried Pensioner has no reason to be worried?

    Note also that I didn't say that it was or wasn't a retrospective liability. All I said was that it's likely to be detrimental to BT senior managements' bonuses - which I believe is correct, or they wouldn't be whining about it.
    Last edited by fwor; 18-05-2018 at 1:36 AM.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 18th May 18, 8:08 AM
    • 2,119 Posts
    • 1,630 Thanks
    hyubh
    So are you saying that Worried Pensioner has no reason to be worried?

    Note also that I didn't say that it was or wasn't a retrospective liability. All I said was that it's likely to be detrimental to BT senior managements' bonuses - which I believe is correct, or they wouldn't be whining about it.
    Originally posted by fwor
    I was replying to your rhetoric about supposedly nefarious BT. In this case, it isn't BT that have reneged on promises, but the government.

    Technically public sector schemes were always on the hook for when a member with GMP didn't get full CPI increases with their state pension (e.g., if someone deferred it, or moved overseas to a country where the UK government doesn't inflation proof state pensions). However, this was always a very small minority of cases before 2015, when the mechanism for new state pensions effectively giving increases on a GMP was removed as part of the single tier reform.

    The reason this doesn't affect most private sector scheme members is contingent on the fact their GMP has 'revalued' (i.e. increased between leaving and GMP age) at a faster rate than the public sector scheme method. This means most private sector scheme members have had their full GMP increases in payment effectively 'front loaded' - the system worked so that the state pension would pay no more (but no less) than what you would have got had you contracted-in, after the GMP paid through your work pension was netted off. So, if your revalued GMP was (is) way bigger than your hypothetical SERPS, you'd keep the outsized GMP but not get any increases on it through the state pension as well.

    The problem with public sector schemes (and private sector ones that revalue GMP in the same way) is that the revalued GMP basically matches the SERPS you would have had, had you contracted in, so increases through the state pension were typically effective immediately.
    Last edited by hyubh; 18-05-2018 at 8:11 AM.
    • lazyred
    • By lazyred 18th May 18, 12:04 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    lazyred
    I'm a deferred B scheme member. Is there any way to calculate the GMP portion of my deferred pension? Would it be similar to the COPE figure from the Govt pension estimate?
    • fwor
    • By fwor 18th May 18, 12:04 PM
    • 5,993 Posts
    • 4,049 Thanks
    fwor
    I didn't say that it was nefarious.

    What I was pointing out is that when there's a government-initiated change that's not within their control (RPI > CPI) which is to their advantage, they happily take it. No consultation about the negative impact on their pensioners - just done and dusted within a couple of weeks.

    And when there's a government-initiated change that's also not within their control (GMP increases) but which is to their financial disadvantage, they immediately moan about it and try to get it reversed.

    You didn't answer my question: are you saying that Worried Pensioner has nothing to worry about, then? If he's one of the people in the age range involved, are you saying that there will be no negative impact on his pension at all, compared to what he could have expected when planning his retirement?
    Last edited by fwor; 18-05-2018 at 1:43 PM. Reason: corrected spelling
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 18th May 18, 6:38 PM
    • 2,119 Posts
    • 1,630 Thanks
    hyubh
    I'm a deferred B scheme member. Is there any way to calculate the GMP portion of my deferred pension?
    Originally posted by lazyred
    It should be split out on the statement of deferred benefits you received after leaving. If you don't still have this, ask the administrator for a new one.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

89Posts Today

1,685Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin