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  • FIRST POST
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 16th May 18, 4:43 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    Debt Spiraling - Need Help Fast.
    • #1
    • 16th May 18, 4:43 PM
    Debt Spiraling - Need Help Fast. 16th May 18 at 4:43 PM
    Hi,

    I've been an MSE follower for years. And.. I have to admit used to be excellent at managing my finances and never thought i'd be here. But through a mixture of bad decisions, work changes, complacency and ignorance I've ended up in a vicious debt spiral.

    I've tried for months to sort things alone, to take the weight off my family, but to no avail I fall back into the same old traps and the cycle continues. Now the debt is making me Ill and changes need to be made.

    I understand my situation may seem mild compared to some. In total I have around 3000 of debt + a 0% loan from my parents for 5100 (and no I can't just not pay this - They aren't well off!).

    Please see my SOE below and HELP if you can!

    I have rounded everything up to the nearest 5 to be as accurate as possible.

    [font=courier new]Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

    Household Information

    Number of adults in household........... 2
    Number of children in household......... 1
    Number of cars owned.................... 1

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 1404.33
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 365.63
    Benefits................................ 89.7
    Other income............................ 0
    Total monthly income.................... 1859.66


    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
    Rent.................................... 525
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 105
    Electricity............................. 40
    Gas..................................... 45
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 45
    Telephone (land line)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 38
    TV Licence.............................. 12.13
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
    Internet Services....................... 21.5
    Groceries etc. ......................... 250
    Clothing................................ 60
    Petrol/diesel........................... 295
    Road tax................................ 0
    Car Insurance........................... 102.91
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 36.5
    Car parking............................. 0
    Other travel............................ 0
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child related expenses............ 25
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 8.7
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 10
    Life assurance ......................... 6.3
    Other insurance......................... 0
    Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 60
    Haircuts................................ 7.33
    Entertainment........................... 85
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 0
    Food@Work`.............................. 65
    Child Maintenance ...................... 57
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1900.37



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 0
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 5000
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 5000


    No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
    0% 36 Month Card...............1500......41.36.....0
    Planned Overdraft..............1400......0.........10
    FAMILY LOAN FOR CAR............5100......200.......0
    Total unsecured debts..........8000......241.36....-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1,859.66
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,900.37
    Available for debt repayments........... -40.71
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 241.36
    Amount short for making debt repayments. -282.07


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 5,000
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -8,000
    Net Assets.............................. -3,000
Page 1
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 16th May 18, 5:21 PM
    • 3,806 Posts
    • 6,580 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 5:21 PM
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 5:21 PM
    Hi,

    I've been an MSE follower for years. And.. I have to admit used to be excellent at managing my finances and never thought i'd be here. But through a mixture of bad decisions, work changes, complacency and ignorance I've ended up in a vicious debt spiral.

    I've tried for months to sort things alone, to take the weight off my family, but to no avail I fall back into the same old traps and the cycle continues. Now the debt is making me Ill and changes need to be made.

    I understand my situation may seem mild compared to some. In total I have around 3000 of debt + a 0% loan from my parents for 5100 (and no I can't just not pay this - They aren't well off!).

    Please see my SOE below and HELP if you can!

    I have rounded everything up to the nearest 5 to be as accurate as possible.

    [font=courier new]Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

    Household Information

    Number of adults in household........... 2
    Number of children in household......... 1
    Number of cars owned.................... 1

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 1404.33
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 365.63 Why so low?
    Benefits................................ 89.7
    Other income............................ 0
    Total monthly income.................... 1859.66


    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
    Rent.................................... 525
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 105 is this over 10 or 12 months?
    Electricity............................. 40
    Gas..................................... 45quite high when combined with electric, shop around for a better tariff and be more economical with usage
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 45this is very high, if not on a metre get one, if on a metre look into reducing usage a lot.
    Telephone (land line)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 38 look for a sim only deal
    TV Licence.............................. 12.13
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
    Internet Services....................... 21.5
    Groceries etc. ......................... 250 could shave a bit off here
    Clothing................................ 60 you don't need this, wear what you have and put anything you no longer need on eBay
    Petrol/diesel........................... 295
    Road tax................................ 0
    Car Insurance........................... 102.91 this is incredibly high, has there been a recent claim?
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 36.5 where are you saving this as you show no cash assets?
    Car parking............................. 0 never?
    Other travel............................ 0
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child related expenses............ 25 what are they and are they needed?
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 8.7
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 10
    Life assurance ......................... 6.3
    Other insurance......................... 0
    Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 60 this is pretty high
    Haircuts................................ 7.33
    Entertainment........................... 85 is this needed? Especially as the weather improves there are lots of free and cheap things to do
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 0 you need something here
    Food@Work`.............................. 65 this has to go, on top of your grocery spend it's over 300. Take lunch with you
    Child Maintenance ...................... 57 I assume there is a second child for this?
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1900.37



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 0 should be something here if you are putting car maintenance money aside.
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 5000 how long ago was it bought it it is worth less than you paid?
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 5000


    No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
    0% 36 Month Card...............1500......41.36.....0
    Planned Overdraft..............1400......0.........10 you need to start paying this off to get out of it and stop spending on interest.
    FAMILY LOAN FOR CAR............5100......200.......0
    Total unsecured debts..........8000......241.36....-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1,859.66
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,900.37
    Available for debt repayments........... -40.71
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 241.36
    Amount short for making debt repayments. -282.07


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 5,000
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -8,000
    Net Assets.............................. -3,000
    Originally posted by Fingersoffish
    My comments above in red, even with cutting back you can make up some of the short fall but it will be very tight if at all possible. The only other option is to up your income, why is your partners income so low?
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 16th May 18, 5:21 PM
    • 489 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 5:21 PM
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 5:21 PM
    Hi,

    [font=courier new]Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

    Household Information

    Number of adults in household........... 2
    Number of children in household......... 1
    Number of cars owned.................... 1

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 1404.33
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 365.63 Any way this can be increase?
    Benefits................................ 89.7
    Other income............................ 0
    Total monthly income.................... 1859.66


    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
    Rent.................................... 525
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 105 Over 12 months?
    Electricity............................. 40
    Gas..................................... 45
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 45
    Telephone (land line)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 38 This is high
    TV Licence.............................. 12.13
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
    Internet Services....................... 21.5
    Groceries etc. ......................... 250
    Clothing................................ 60 Could this be reduced?
    Petrol/diesel........................... 295
    Road tax................................ 0 Nothing?
    Car Insurance........................... 102.91
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 36.5
    Car parking............................. 0 Car seems to be heavily used is 0 correct?
    Other travel............................ 0
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child related expenses............ 25
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 8.7
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 10
    Life assurance ......................... 6.3
    Other insurance......................... 0
    Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 60 This is too much you can't afford it
    Haircuts................................ 7.33
    Entertainment........................... 85 Again this can be reduced
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 0 Need something here
    Food@Work`.............................. 65 take food to work
    Child Maintenance ...................... 57
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1900.37



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 0
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 5000
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 5000


    No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
    0% 36 Month Card...............1500......41.36.....0
    Planned Overdraft..............1400......0.........10
    FAMILY LOAN FOR CAR............5100......200.......0
    Total unsecured debts..........8000......241.36....-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1,859.66
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,900.37
    Available for debt repayments........... -40.71
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 241.36
    Amount short for making debt repayments. -282.07


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 5,000
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -8,000
    Net Assets.............................. -3,000
    Originally posted by Fingersoffish
    I'm sure others will be along to help but my thoughts above

    The car seems to be crippling you, when you combine the loan, insurance, maintenance & petrol its 632.91 nearly half of your take home pay and more than your rent.
    • JayRitchie
    • By JayRitchie 16th May 18, 5:35 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    JayRitchie
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 5:35 PM
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 5:35 PM
    Hi

    Couple of questions:

    - Why is your partners income so low? How old is the child? Is that the child being paid for under child maintenance?

    - The petrol and insurance costs look large? Do you have a long commute? Or a particularly expensive to run car? Car maintenance looks low for a 5000 car if required for work.
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 16th May 18, 5:49 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 5:49 PM
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 5:49 PM
    My comments above in red, even with cutting back you can make up some of the short fall but it will be very tight if at all possible. The only other option is to up your income, why is your partners income so low?
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    Hi, my partners income is low as my second child is only 2.

    We get the 16 hours free childcare but this only covers 3 half days. I work 8-6 daily in the week. She works in a chip shop but this gives her only a couple of hours a week at minimum wage + a little bit of tax credits.

    For clothes, we have wardrobes full of stuff we never wear. Not sure if it would sell! We aren't a designer family but have a few nice clothes. I personally haven't bought any new clothes for myself for 3 years... Spend comes from kids clothes mainly.

    Gas/electric. I have always payed more in previous properties. The issue here is we have no room thermostat only TRVs and a timer for the boiler, heating is hard to control. Not sure how to combat that in rented accommodation I couldn't justify fitting one.

    Phones are both contract with a year + to go. That figure does include mine and my wife's phone plus all usage.

    Car is heavily used as my son lives 115 miles away, I have him 36 weekends a year and pick up and drop off so this is 460miles x 36 hence the high usage (on top of my work/personal daily mileage).

    My biggest thing is food/drink. I get very thirsty and always end up buying pop whenever I pass a shop. Also we are an outdoorsy/out he house family and we never do a pack up - mainly just wouldn't know what do etc. Also temptation of expensive take away food.

    In fact I wish I could just get away from spending on that kind of thing. But even when I try leaving my cards at home I have mobile contactless payments etc and will end up spending! I don't like to take no money at all in car of emergencys so usually have a debit card to hand.
    Last edited by Fingersoffish; 16-05-2018 at 8:29 PM. Reason: More detailed reply
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 16th May 18, 5:52 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 5:52 PM
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 5:52 PM
    Hi

    Couple of questions:

    - Why is your partners income so low? How old is the child? Is that the child being paid for under child maintenance?

    - The petrol and insurance costs look large? Do you have a long commute? Or a particularly expensive to run car? Car maintenance looks low for a 5000 car if required for work.
    Originally posted by JayRitchie
    See above reply regarding partners income.

    I have a second child who lives away, hence the high mileage for pick-up and collection most weekends to see him. Plus the Child maintenance is for him.

    Car is very cheap to run (60mpg + and no tax) but my mileage is extremely high. Car maintenance calculations only takes into account twice yearly servicing and MOT... i know there are other costs! argghh!
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 16th May 18, 5:55 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 5:55 PM
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 5:55 PM
    I'm sure others will be along to help but my thoughts above

    The car seems to be crippling you, when you combine the loan, insurance, maintenance & petrol its 632.91 nearly half of your take home pay and more than your rent.
    Originally posted by Soundgirlrocks

    Thanks for your comments! I will certainly look into a lot of your points.

    See above for comments about my partners lack of work. I really dont know how with childcare she can fit in extra hours until my daughter is school age. We don't have any family to rely on for childcare!

    I know the car costs us a fortune! But it's the mileage and usage that adds up. Seeing my son 36+ weekends a year + additional in school holidays at 230 a round trip (460 for one visit when you consider i bring him home, then drop him back up). Honestly don't know how to touch those costs.

    I'm 24 hence my high insurance costs!
    • JayRitchie
    • By JayRitchie 16th May 18, 6:23 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    JayRitchie
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 6:23 PM
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 6:23 PM
    I know the car costs us a fortune! But it's the mileage and usage that adds up. Seeing my son 36+ weekends a year + additional in school holidays at 230 a round trip (460 for one visit when you consider i bring him home, then drop him back up). Honestly don't know how to touch those costs.

    I'm 24 hence my high insurance costs!
    Originally posted by Fingersoffish
    Hey, will write more later but just wanted to say its great to read of a young guy going to so much effort for their children. I see so many stories where the mum suffers from a lack of care.

    What job do you do? You are only young - any chance of progression/ payrises?
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 16th May 18, 7:33 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 7:33 PM
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 7:33 PM
    I do what I can although it's difficult with such a massive financial commitment. It's why I really need to cut corners elsewhere and shave every penny I can.

    I suppose one of my biggest issues (and particularly my wife's point of view) is they my daughter (who lives with me) doesn't miss out because of the amount I spend visiting/csa for my son. That makes it very hard to avoid unnecessary spending.

    As for a job. I'm a product manager for a medical company. I do have good progression prospects over the next 3 years. Or so I am told, the possibility of increasing my salary up to 40,000 + p/a which would solve my problems. But that's a possibility not a given and certainly not something I can rely upon.
    • tlc678910
    • By tlc678910 17th May 18, 12:56 AM
    • 522 Posts
    • 896 Thanks
    tlc678910
    Hi,
    I believe 30 hours of free childcare is available when your child turns 3 (for working parents who work over 16 hours I think). I think you can use them with more than one provider e.g. childminders and nurseries that are signed up to the scheme not just preschools. You could for example have a couple of days of preschool with wraparound care from a childminder, or preschool every day so it might not be as long as you think before your wife could work more hours. Worth looking into and your wife could give her boss the heads up that she will be wanting more shifts if possible soon.
    Tlc
    • tealady
    • By tealady 17th May 18, 5:12 AM
    • 2,775 Posts
    • 3,311 Thanks
    tealady
    Hi
    If you get thirsty then sugary pop will not help. Buy yourself a refillable bottle and fill up with tap water each time you leave the house.
    Re your son. Could you agree with your ex a mutual hand over point somewhere half way? Or woukd public transport be cheaper. Also check before you leave the house where the cheapest petrol station is and fill up there.
    Also take packed lunches to work, there are loads of ideas on the forums
    Proud to be an MSE nerd
    Judge people by their achievements, not by their mistakes
    • Mumoffourkids
    • By Mumoffourkids 17th May 18, 6:28 AM
    • 615 Posts
    • 2,959 Thanks
    Mumoffourkids
    I agree with tea lady. My ex husband and I live about 100 miles apart and we meet halfway at a motorway service station so neither of us has to do the full journey which would be two and half hours each way. If you have to drive both ways, then you must be exhausted as well as using loads of fuel.

    And also once your daughter turns three if both parents are working st least 16 hours, then you do get 30 hours of childcare term time only. It starts the term after they turn 3 and carries on until they start school.
    Total debt Dec 2017 23090.83
    Ma7 2018 4621.78 79.98% paid
    Emergency fund 100/600
    Total Savings 1258.62
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 17th May 18, 7:07 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    I agree with tea lady. My ex husband and I live about 100 miles apart and we meet halfway at a motorway service station so neither of us has to do the full journey which would be two and half hours each way. If you have to drive both ways, then you must be exhausted as well as using loads of fuel.

    And also once your daughter turns three if both parents are working st least 16 hours, then you do get 30 hours of childcare term time only. It starts the term after they turn 3 and carries on until they start school.
    Originally posted by Mumoffourkids
    Hi
    If you get thirsty then sugary pop will not help. Buy yourself a refillable bottle and fill up with tap water each time you leave the house.
    Re your son. Could you agree with your ex a mutual hand over point somewhere half way? Or woukd public transport be cheaper. Also check before you leave the house where the cheapest petrol station is and fill up there.
    Also take packed lunches to work, there are loads of ideas on the forums
    Originally posted by tealady
    Thanks. I will look into packed lunches. And I know pop doesn't help, unfortunately I'm a little addicted to energy drinks and pop due to the busy life I have, but I know I need to cut them out to not only save money but better my health.

    As for childcare, I'll have to look into the 30 hours, the difficulty would be convincing my wife that it's not bad for my daughter to do 30 hours... . but with school/reception only another year 1/2 away I guess it makes little difference.

    Unfortunately my ex girlfriend cannot drive so it's impossible for her to meet me half way for a handover. The only members of her family that can drive aren't willing as I have asked about it before. This means I have to do have to do the whole journey every time. Unfortunately public transport is awful between mine and hers. Neither are major cities/locations so the train is a 20 minute drive to the station followed by 3 changeovers on route. Takes are 4 hours one way and costs 45+ for a return fare which is more than I currently spend on fuel
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 17th May 18, 10:22 AM
    • 489 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    Would relocating be an option so you are closer to your son / on a better route for public transport?
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 17th May 18, 10:26 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    Would relocating be an option so you are closer to your son / on a better route for public transport?
    Originally posted by Soundgirlrocks
    I have considered the option, but my work is where I live and i'd be unlikely to get such a good job elsewhere. Not to mention my Wife is 100% against it. It would mean moving 115 from all our family and my daughters grandparents/aunts/uncles etc..

    It would make a huge difference to us financially to move, but in all true honesty my marriage wouldn't survive it and then i'd end up 115 miles from my daughter the other end
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 17th May 18, 10:30 AM
    • 12,111 Posts
    • 17,044 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Are the costs of the return journeys to see your son accounted for in the child maintenance calculations?
    • tlc678910
    • By tlc678910 17th May 18, 10:47 AM
    • 522 Posts
    • 896 Thanks
    tlc678910
    Re 30 hours childcare: I think it might be allowed for you to use a few less hours each week but spread your provision over the school holidays aswell, if your provider opens during the holidays e.g childminder or nursery which might help.
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 17th May 18, 11:08 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    Are the costs of the return journeys to see your son accounted for in the child maintenance calculations?
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    Hi Pixie,

    They are yes, although they will only let me take my yearly fuel from my net income. I have argued with them multiple times that vehicle maintenance and premature wear should be counted but to no avail. I'm in no way against maintenance payments, but it riles me that 16,000, 1300 liters of diesel and all the additional costs (insurance rises, tyres, extra servicing) aren't accounted for.

    But hey, moaning about it wont get me out of debt so i carry on!
    • hannh
    • By hannh 17th May 18, 5:43 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 189 Thanks
    hannh
    Hi, if you need help with taking lunch to work there is a good challenge on the dfw board where you challenge yourself to take lunch to work for a set number of days each month. Its something I have struggled with a lot before but I'm on my first month of the challenge and enjoying it - it keeps you more accountable! People often post their lunch for ideas as well.
    I do think your good shop looks high - maybe try meal planning a little or downbranding to see if thats helps?
    • Fingersoffish
    • By Fingersoffish 17th May 18, 7:32 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fingersoffish
    Hi, if you need help with taking lunch to work there is a good challenge on the dfw board where you challenge yourself to take lunch to work for a set number of days each month. Its something I have struggled with a lot before but I'm on my first month of the challenge and enjoying it - it keeps you more accountable! People often post their lunch for ideas as well.
    I do think your good shop looks high - maybe try meal planning a little or downbranding to see if thats helps?
    Originally posted by hannh

    Hey. I certainly need help with work lunches and I think I'll join the challenge. My memories of packed lunches have always been soggy partially warm sandwiches from primary school and it's always put me off making sandwiches. If it was salads/pastas etc I'd be much better! But I'm very unimaginative when it comes to that sort of thing.

    I'll take a good hard luck at my grocery shop (just to mention that figure does include all toiletries and cleaning products too). But again I'm a decent cook but very unimaginative and recipe books seem to take hours of prep which I just don't have time for!
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