Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • cupcakesnomnom
    • By cupcakesnomnom 16th May 18, 10:08 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    cupcakesnomnom
    Confused with Lenders response, please help
    • #1
    • 16th May 18, 10:08 AM
    Confused with Lenders response, please help 16th May 18 at 10:08 AM
    Hi, hope someone an help

    Back in 2014, we started a complaint in order to reclaim mis-sold PPI.

    We went backwards and forwards over a fairly long period and eventually reached the stage where they refused our claim with the reason:-

    'Having looked at your case, we are unable to investigate as we were not present at the point of sale'

    Their reasoning explained that as a broker arranged the mortgage, it had nothing to do with them, therefor they were washing their hands of it.

    We fully intended to take it further although in April 2015 received the devastating news that our youngest son had cancer. Naturally, we channelled all of our time and efforts into his care and as a result, this is the first time since that date that I've had the time and energy to try and take this further.

    Is the lender correct in their final reasoning? I'd really like this money back as it wasn't fair they took it in the first place.

    Any help greatly appreciated.
Page 1
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 16th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • 3,004 Posts
    • 1,942 Thanks
    TrickyDicky101
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 10:40 AM
    If you are claiming for a miss-sale then surely it makes sense that you approach whoever sold you <whatever> to make your complaint? You sourced the mortgage from a broker - not directly from the bank, therefore the bank didn't sell you anything. It would be the broker you should approach with your complaint.
    • cupcakesnomnom
    • By cupcakesnomnom 16th May 18, 10:58 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    cupcakesnomnom
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 10:58 AM
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 10:58 AM
    Thanks for your help, guess I'm screwed then as the broker is no longer in business.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 16th May 18, 11:02 AM
    • 20,143 Posts
    • 11,090 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 11:02 AM
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 11:02 AM
    I'd really like this money back as it wasn't fair they took it in the first place.
    Originally posted by cupcakesnomnom
    Obviously your complaint cannot now proceed any further, but you can take comfort from the fact that most Mortgage PPI was not mis-sold. It protected against a potentially life-changing event-losing your home.

    Why do you think the insurance was not "fair"? In what way were you mis-sold?
    • cupcakesnomnom
    • By cupcakesnomnom 16th May 18, 11:09 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    cupcakesnomnom
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 11:09 AM
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 11:09 AM
    Obviously your complaint cannot now proceed any further, but you can take comfort from the fact that most Mortgage PPI was not mis-sold. It protected against a potentially life-changing event-losing your home.

    Why do you think the insurance was not "fair"? In what way were you mis-sold?
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    We were told it was an essential component of the loan and that without it, we would be declined.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 16th May 18, 11:15 AM
    • 20,143 Posts
    • 11,090 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 11:15 AM
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 11:15 AM
    We were told it was an essential component of the loan and that without it, we would be declined.
    Originally posted by cupcakesnomnom
    Unfortunately, the insurance very likely was compulsory. Brokers often gave free mortgage advice in exchange for insisting on PPI.

    It would only have been mis-sold if you had been told the insurance was required when it was actually wasn't.

    It's all moot now.

    Your complaint was already over four years ago, I'm afraid.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 16th May 18, 11:21 AM
    • 92,590 Posts
    • 59,900 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 11:21 AM
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 11:21 AM
    Is the lender correct in their final reasoning?
    Yes they are. You complained to the wrong place.

    There is nothing wrong with having PPI. The product is still available to buy today (although it is only mortgage PPI and regular premium PPI that is still available as they are the two good types of PPI).

    The whole isssue is whether it was sold correctly or not. So, it is the firm that sold it that matters. Your lender never sold any product to you. So, they have no liability for the complaint.

    Effectively what you did was buy something from ASDA and then complained to Tesco about ASDA.

    I'd really like this money back as it wasn't fair they took it in the first place.
    They didnt take it from you. You lender had nothing to do with it.

    You should complain to the broker. However, there are some issues here.

    Broker/advisers account for under 1% of PPI complaints and most are rejected. To put that in context, the two largest mortgage brokers in the country (which account for half of all mortgages) both have under 30 complaints at the FOS in respect of PPI. PPI is not seen as a broker/adviser failure.

    There are reasons for this which are
    a) most MPPI is from brokers is put in place under an advice process. So, they have a shortfall/needs analysis and a factfind and know more about you.
    b) and you are taking out a mortgage which the FOS consider a serious debt with lifestyle changing consequences if it goes unpaid (unlike loan and credit card PPI). The expectation is that you have insurance to protect yourself for various events.
    c) Small broker/advice firms (rather than salesforces from banks and national firms) are personally liable for complaints. That can focus the mind more on risk. They are more likely to not do things that are going to come back and bite them on the bum later as they would to pay for it out of their pocket. Not the case with salesforce staff.
    d) most mortgage brokers/advisers were not regulated until after 14th Jan 2005. So, they dont have to consider complaints made on pre 2005 sales. So, the window for potential misselling for them is 2005 to around 2009 (by then most knew the issues on PPI and the bad and good methods)
    e) Many brokers have a charging basis that means you get free advice on the mortgage if you buy an insurance product via them. That method is allowed as long as the insurance is suitable. (this tends to negate the "told I had to have it" style complaint).
    f) the FOS have said that independents have better records and higher quality files than the banks. So, audit trail is usually better.


    This doesnt mean you cant be missold. Single premium MPPI is considered bad Regular premium MPPI is good. Self employed can be an issue but to a lesser extent as most whole of market available plans were better quality than the salesforce plans. A decent one with say Paymentshield covered the self employed with no onerous conditions. There were a few lower quality budget plans that were not as good.

    So, in terms of odds, you can see that its low. Not impossible as there were some missold but nowhere near the level of the banks.

    One last consideration is that if you make a complaint to a broker/adviser, they are going to take it personally. If you have a genuine complaint then fair enough. However, if you are trying it on, then remember that you are affecting an individual. Not a faceless bank. I have had a mortgage broker come to me in tears because of try-it-on complaint. He suffered a 500 bill from the FOS despite no PPI ever being sold. As a young mortgage broker who had only recently started, his income was low and he had just bought a house and a 500 cost hit him hard for doing absolutely nothing wrong. His confidence was shattered and his head wasnt right for months. Its not like the banks who are not holding staff responsible.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 16th May 18, 11:34 AM
    • 20,143 Posts
    • 11,090 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 11:34 AM
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 11:34 AM
    if you make a complaint to a broker/adviser, they are going to take it personally. If you have a genuine complaint then fair enough.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    The broker in this case is no longer trading, Dunston.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 16th May 18, 12:07 PM
    • 92,590 Posts
    • 59,900 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 12:07 PM
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 12:07 PM
    The broker in this case is no longer trading, Dunston.
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    I started my response about 20 minutes earlier than I posted. Held up with a phone call. It would have been post #3 had I not been delayed.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,665Posts Today

7,251Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin