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  • FIRST POST
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 15th May 18, 10:52 PM
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    revilosmith99
    Amazon Seller refusing a refund
    • #1
    • 15th May 18, 10:52 PM
    Amazon Seller refusing a refund 15th May 18 at 10:52 PM
    Hi, I ordered a Samsung Galaxy S7 edge on the Amazon UK website via a seller. After around 6 months of having the phone, it developed a fault whereby there is a pink row of pixels down the screen. After some research online, it appears other people have this same fault as well and that Samsung are willing to fix this free of charge under warranty.

    Upon contact of Samsung UK, I gave them the serial number and IMEI of my phone and they told me that they are not able to repair the phone as it is not the UK model but is actually a UAE model of the phone. After checking on Amazon, the device was clearly advertised to me as a UK model, in fact the title of the product was 'Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge 32GB UK SIM-Free Smartphone - Black', this clearly advertises the phone as a UK model. I am not pleased with this as the seller of this device has given me a UAE device instead of the UK device which was ordered.

    Upon contact with the seller, they explained to me that Samsung will cover this under warranty, however after telling them that Samsung have explicitly told me that they cannot do anything and that they have given me the wrong device, they agreed to allow me to return the device and they will fix it free of charge. At this point, I told the seller I do not want it repaired but instead would like a full refund of the original price of the device as they have not given me what I thought I was purchasing. However, the seller has refused to acknowledge this, all correspondence has been over email, and all they will offer me is for them to repair the device. The reason I do not think this is acceptable is because if something like this was to happen again then I would be in exactly the same situation as I am in now and a repair would not change the fact that the device is not actually the model I thought I had purchased.

    There have been multiple emails between the seller and myself. After asking for a full refund of the device I have been met with this response:

    "Dear Customer,

    After further checking with our team, we would like to confirm that at this stage, we can only offer a repair for your phone.

    Kind regards,
    Customer service"

    This is despite my emphasis to the seller that they have sold me a UAE model of the device instead of the UK model. In fact, in one of their emails, they actually acknowledged that usually they send an 'EU spec' device, but failed to explain why I wasn't in this case.

    I would like to know how I should proceed with this. What are my rights under this situation, the Consumer Rights act 2015 states that a product must be 'as described'. How should I proceed from this stage?

    Thank you for any help that can be offered with this.
Page 1
    • Castle
    • By Castle 16th May 18, 10:14 AM
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    Castle
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 10:14 AM
    • #2
    • 16th May 18, 10:14 AM
    Did you pay with a credit card?
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 16th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • 3,805 Posts
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    Fosterdog
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • #3
    • 16th May 18, 10:40 AM
    The bit you may have a problem with is that the U.K. Sim Free part of the description just means that it can be used with most U.K. networks (similar to unlocked but slightly different descriptions). It doesn't necessarily mean the the phone in question is a U.K. model.
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 11:06 AM
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    revilosmith99
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 11:06 AM
    • #4
    • 16th May 18, 11:06 AM
    The title of the product just mentioned 'UK' and didn't say anything about it being a UK SIM. In fact, it turns out the seller has now removed 'UK' from the product title on amazon on their latest listing. In no way did it say I would be getting an imported UAE device and using 'UK' in the title is very misleading.

    Did you pay with a credit card?
    Originally posted by Castle
    I payed via debit card
    Last edited by revilosmith99; 16-05-2018 at 11:27 AM.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 16th May 18, 11:48 AM
    • 3,805 Posts
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    Fosterdog
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 11:48 AM
    • #5
    • 16th May 18, 11:48 AM
    The title of the product just mentioned 'UK' and didn't say anything about it being a UK SIM. In fact, it turns out the seller has now removed 'UK' from the product title on amazon on their latest listing. In no way did it say I would be getting an imported UAE device and using 'UK' in the title is very misleading.


    I payed via debit card
    Originally posted by revilosmith99
    You said yourself in your first post that it was advertised as "Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge UK SIM Free Samrtphone Black. That just says that it is U.K. SIM free, it doesn't mean that it is a U.K. model.
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 1:01 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    revilosmith99
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 1:01 PM
    • #6
    • 16th May 18, 1:01 PM
    You said yourself in your first post that it was advertised as "Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge UK SIM Free Samrtphone Black. That just says that it is U.K. SIM free, it doesn't mean that it is a U.K. model.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    Ok but it did not say anywhere that it was a UAE imported model, as well as that on contact of the seller they admitted that usually they provide 'EU spec' phones but didnt explain why I was given a UAE spec phone.

    Also I inferred 'UK Sim Free' to mean a UK model but a Sim-Free device. In fact 'Sim-Free' just refers to the fact that it comes without a sim card (a quick search on google shows this is the commonly used meaning of this phrase. As such, I think they were advertising the phone as a UK model but sim free
    Last edited by revilosmith99; 16-05-2018 at 1:05 PM.
    • nomoneytoday
    • By nomoneytoday 16th May 18, 1:11 PM
    • 4,747 Posts
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    nomoneytoday
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 1:11 PM
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 1:11 PM
    Why not let them fix it?
    You'll be back in the same position - i.e. you'll have a working S7 phone
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 1:14 PM
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    revilosmith99
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 1:14 PM
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 1:14 PM
    Why not let them fix it?
    You'll be back in the same position - i.e. you'll have a working S7 phone
    Originally posted by nomoneytoday
    This is true and I did consider this, however what if this happens again? I would have to go through this same process, in fact people have reported the issue returning after the fix. The company isn't UK based, it turns out, and it would apparently take almost 6 weeks for the repair as well.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 16th May 18, 2:49 PM
    • 3,805 Posts
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    Fosterdog
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 2:49 PM
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 2:49 PM
    Ok but it did not say anywhere that it was a UAE imported model, as well as that on contact of the seller they admitted that usually they provide 'EU spec' phones but didnt explain why I was given a UAE spec phone.

    Also I inferred 'UK Sim Free' to mean a UK model but a Sim-Free device. In fact 'Sim-Free' just refers to the fact that it comes without a sim card (a quick search on google shows this is the commonly used meaning of this phrase. As such, I think they were advertising the phone as a UK model but sim free
    Originally posted by revilosmith99
    Actually it is a common misconception that SIM free means without a SIM card when it actually means it has never been locked to a network (whereas an unlocked phone has been but then had the lock removed) so all U.K. SIM Free actually means is that is has never been locked to a U.K. network. It does not mean that it is a U.K. model of phone without a SIM card.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 16th May 18, 3:08 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
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    unholyangel
    If its been 6 months its likely you're outwith the time to make a chargeback claim.

    Try contacting the seller again (assuming they are based in the UK) and remind them that they have a legal obligation to provide goods that conform to contract. That they have admitted they supplied the wrong product and a repair will not bring the goods back within conformity therefore they have the option of proving a replacement or a refund (although be aware if its more than 6 months from purchase, they can reduce any refund to account for use you have had).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 3:43 PM
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    revilosmith99
    If its been 6 months its likely you're outwith the time to make a chargeback claim.

    Try contacting the seller again (assuming they are based in the UK) and remind them that they have a legal obligation to provide goods that conform to contract. That they have admitted they supplied the wrong product and a repair will not bring the goods back within conformity therefore they have the option of proving a replacement or a refund (although be aware if its more than 6 months from purchase, they can reduce any refund to account for use you have had).
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    I have contacted them asking if they are willing to refund the phone for its current value but they messaged back saying they will only do the repair. I cant post links but looking up the detailed seller info from amazon gives:

    Business Name: Alfatek Limited
    Business Type:Limited Company
    Trade Register Number:2240997
    VAT Number:GB281741888
    Customer Services Address:
    7/F China United Plaza, 1008 Tai Nan West Street,
    Cheung Sha Wan
    Kowloon
    kowloon
    HK
    Business Address:
    7/F China United Plaza, 1008 Tai Nan West Street,
    Cheung Sha Wan
    Kowloon
    HK

    It appears as though they are based in Hong Kong. Not sure what else I can do because I think it is too late for a chargeback as I payed via debit card (and it was almost a year ago).

    Would anyone agree that the product isn't 'as described' as required by the Consumer rights act 2015, maybe I should get the opinion of a solicitor?
    Last edited by revilosmith99; 16-05-2018 at 3:53 PM.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 16th May 18, 3:52 PM
    • 1,847 Posts
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    Aylesbury Duck
    I think it is as described. The UK SIM-free descriptor relates to it not being locked to a network.

    Why did you buy it from a HK business when it's a commonplace model that can be bought from an endless list of UK retailers?
    Please forgive the deliberate omission of apostrophes on some posts whilst I await MSE to do something about the daft codes that appear in their place when typing on certain devices.
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 3:59 PM
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    revilosmith99
    I think it is as described. The UK SIM-free descriptor relates to it not being locked to a network.

    Why did you buy it from a HK business when it's a commonplace model that can be bought from an endless list of UK retailers?
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck
    It was purchased on Amazon UK via this seller.

    Despite this, it did not say anywhere that the device was actually from the UAE, and the title strongly insinuates that the device is a UK model, so was not clear advertising, especially when 'UK sim-free' could be inferred to be a sim free phone UK model
    Last edited by revilosmith99; 16-05-2018 at 4:01 PM.
    • munchpot
    • By munchpot 16th May 18, 4:11 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    munchpot
    It was purchased on Amazon UK via this seller.

    Despite this, it did not say anywhere that the device was actually from the UAE, and the title strongly insinuates that the device is a UK model, so was not clear advertising, especially when 'UK sim-free' could be inferred to be a sim free phone UK model
    Originally posted by revilosmith99
    Without sounding harsh I think you need to let go of the UK Sim Free meaning it's a UK model. Companies are very adept at using phrases to make things sound one way but staying on the right side of the law.

    Off topic but, for example, a leading UK washing powder advertised their product as 'no other powder washes whiter' Some people took that to mean they washed the whitest, whereas what it actually says is 'we wash to the same whiteness as everybody else'

    The inclusion of the UK Sim Free line is factually correct (as pointed out above meaning it's not been previously locked to a UK network) and therefore don't think they have broken any rules, so I believe they are fulfilling their obligations by agreeing to repair the device.
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 4:27 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    revilosmith99
    Without sounding harsh I think you need to let go of the UK Sim Free meaning it's a UK model. Companies are very adept at using phrases to make things sound one way but staying on the right side of the law.

    Off topic but, for example, a leading UK washing powder advertised their product as 'no other powder washes whiter' Some people took that to mean they washed the whitest, whereas what it actually says is 'we wash to the same whiteness as everybody else'

    The inclusion of the UK Sim Free line is factually correct (as pointed out above meaning it's not been previously locked to a UK network) and therefore don't think they have broken any rules, so I believe they are fulfilling their obligations by agreeing to repair the device.
    Originally posted by munchpot
    After a quick search, I cannot find any reference to 'UK Sim Free' being used in this context. In fact, if I search for 'UK Sim Free' it brings up options which only discuss 'Sim-Free'. It appears that the commonly accepted definition of sim-free is 'SIM Free is literally as it sounds; a phone that is free of a SIM card.' so putting UK Sim-Free to mean one thing would make no sense at all.

    Note that there is a distinction between 'Sim Free' and 'Unlocked'.
    Last edited by revilosmith99; 16-05-2018 at 4:31 PM.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 16th May 18, 5:38 PM
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    Fosterdog
    After a quick search, I cannot find any reference to 'UK Sim Free' being used in this context. In fact, if I search for 'UK Sim Free' it brings up options which only discuss 'Sim-Free'. It appears that the commonly accepted definition of sim-free is 'SIM Free is literally as it sounds; a phone that is free of a SIM card.' so putting UK Sim-Free to mean one thing would make no sense at all.

    Note that there is a distinction between 'Sim Free' and 'Unlocked'.
    Originally posted by revilosmith99
    Even if you want to use the commonly incorrect definition of SIM Free, it is still advertised as a U.K. SIM Free phone which would just be a phone provided without a U.K. SIM card and not guaranteed to be a U.K. model of phone.

    Note: Yes there is a distinction between sim Free and unlocked which is why I said they are similar but not the same.
    • its_all_over
    • By its_all_over 16th May 18, 6:15 PM
    • 40 Posts
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    its_all_over
    Have you considered making a complaint to Amazon? you don't have to worry about the various distinctions being discussed and just say you feel that you have been misled by the Amazon seller because they didn't disclose it was a UAE phone.

    Amazon might step in and help you get a refund if that's what you want, even if there isn't a statutory right to get one.
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 6:25 PM
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    revilosmith99
    Have you considered making a complaint to Amazon? you don't have to worry about the various distinctions being discussed and just say you feel that you have been misled by the Amazon seller because they didn't disclose it was a UAE phone.

    Amazon might step in and help you get a refund if that's what you want, even if there isn't a statutory right to get one.
    Originally posted by its_all_over
    This was the first thing I tried, but all amazon can do it contact the seller and tell them what i've told amazon. Amazon do not actually have any authority over what the company does (it is past the date for doing an A-Z claim via amazon) so it seems best to keep contact directly between myself and the seller.
    • its_all_over
    • By its_all_over 16th May 18, 6:29 PM
    • 40 Posts
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    its_all_over
    This was the first thing I tried, but all amazon can do it contact the seller and tell them what i've told amazon. Amazon do not actually have any authority over what the company does (it is past the date for doing an A-Z claim via amazon) so it seems best to keep contact directly between myself and the seller.
    Originally posted by revilosmith99
    You have no case or statutory rights to get a refund now, if it was me I would be complaining about the misrepresentation of the phone to everyone at Amazon that I could, not the poor person who answers emails but to as many managers and above I could find details for, all the way up to Jeff Bezos.

    Complain about how unhappy you are that Amazon allow sellers to sell grey products from outside the EU without disclosing that fact and how it means you have no warranty.

    You are looking at trying to get some goodwill help.
    • revilosmith99
    • By revilosmith99 16th May 18, 7:40 PM
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    revilosmith99
    After doing some research the company has previously operated under the name 'wowcamera' and a review on trustpilot shows someone who had the exact same problem as me:

    "sold overseas phone by wowcamera through amazon UK
    thought it was a great deal on an S7 edge until our son dropped the phone and we needed to send it to samsung in cambridge for screen replacement. unfortunately samsung refused to service the phone after giving them the serial as it was not a uk model. wowcamera agreed to replace the phone eventually as it was missold, however UPS was unable to find the address in the netherlands wowcamera claims to operate from. perfect way to burn 500, spend the little extra and buy form a reputable uk dealer"
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