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    • swinterton
    • By swinterton 15th May 18, 11:50 AM
    • 25Posts
    • 7Thanks
    swinterton
    Very old ppi claim
    • #1
    • 15th May 18, 11:50 AM
    Very old ppi claim 15th May 18 at 11:50 AM
    Hi guys, need some advice on where and what to do next on my fathers pip claim.
    The claim relates to a TSB 40,000 pound business loan my father started in approx 1991.
    We have the account no from old 1994/95 bank statements showing he was paying about 500/600 per month for the loan.
    At first Lloyd’s stated that they could not locate the loan, then they said they located the loan account but no proof/record of pip.
    So I did a SAR, (of this site)they have just sent back the checks stating they do not keep records this long and they can find nothing.
    Is the standard of proof on me to prove the existence of PPI or is it for them to prove there was not.
    What’s my next step please.....Thanks in advance for any help and advice
    uncle buck
Page 1
    • zx81
    • By zx81 15th May 18, 11:53 AM
    • 17,645 Posts
    • 18,785 Thanks
    zx81
    • #2
    • 15th May 18, 11:53 AM
    • #2
    • 15th May 18, 11:53 AM
    You're the one making the complaint - so if you can't prove there is PPI and that it was mis sold, it's going nowhere.
    • swinterton
    • By swinterton 15th May 18, 11:58 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    swinterton
    • #3
    • 15th May 18, 11:58 AM
    • #3
    • 15th May 18, 11:58 AM
    Oh okay thank you’ for you quick reply
    What about the returned SAR, I asked for all info and if info had been destroyed details of such time dates etc ..... is it reasonable for them to return cheques without the info I asked for.
    uncle buck
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 15th May 18, 11:59 AM
    • 93,355 Posts
    • 60,858 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #4
    • 15th May 18, 11:59 AM
    • #4
    • 15th May 18, 11:59 AM
    Is the standard of proof on me to prove the existence of PPI or is it for them to prove there was not.
    Logically, proof of existence is required. Not proof of non-existence. The latter would be daft. Logic wins in this case thankfully

    What!!!8217;s my next step please
    Game over unless your father has records.
    What about the returned SAR, I asked for all info and if info had been destroyed details of such time dates etc ..... is it reasonable for them to return cheques without the info I asked for.
    You have no legal right to request such things. There is no requirement for dates/times of destruction to be recorded and given to you.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 15th May 18, 12:00 PM
    • 17,645 Posts
    • 18,785 Thanks
    zx81
    • #5
    • 15th May 18, 12:00 PM
    • #5
    • 15th May 18, 12:00 PM
    It's unusual, but very kind of them if they know they don't have data that old, which they shouldn't.
    • swinterton
    • By swinterton 15th May 18, 12:10 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    swinterton
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 12:10 PM
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 12:10 PM
    Only record we have is that loan and account existed, and my father remembering the term ppi being mention and written somwhere, but no written proof of this.
    But that’s shame looks like we will have to let this one go
    uncle buck
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 15th May 18, 12:14 PM
    • 36,057 Posts
    • 46,475 Thanks
    McKneff
    • #7
    • 15th May 18, 12:14 PM
    • #7
    • 15th May 18, 12:14 PM
    I thought ppi wasnt applied to business loans.
    Quite happy to be enlightened
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 15th May 18, 12:27 PM
    • 20,590 Posts
    • 11,450 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 12:27 PM
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 12:27 PM
    Only record we have is that loan and account existed, and my father remembering the term ppi being mention and written somwhere
    Originally posted by swinterton
    A "memory" from 27 years ago is easily trumped by the Bank's records I'm afraid. You'd need comprehensive documentary proof that the "PPI" was paid and you'd also need to show it was somehow mis-sold.

    As above, it's also very unlikely that any insurance on a Business Loan was PPI.

    I think you'll need to forget about this one...
    • swinterton
    • By swinterton 15th May 18, 12:46 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    swinterton
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 12:46 PM
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 12:46 PM
    [QUOTE=Moneyineptitude;74287856]A "memory" from 27 years ago is easily trumped by the Bank's records I'm afraid.

    Yes I know’ it’s not much use in law.... but the bank has no record to easily trump this.


    Very interested in the business loan/ppi if others have info on this to be correct, it would at least help my father feel better
    uncle buck
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 15th May 18, 1:06 PM
    • 4,902 Posts
    • 2,969 Thanks
    Nasqueron

    Yes I know!!!8217; it!!!8217;s not much use in law.... but the bank has no record to easily trump this.


    Very interested in the business loan/ppi if others have info on this to be correct, it would at least help my father feel better
    Originally posted by swinterton
    The bank doesn't need a record, you are alleging something, you have to provide the proof (whether in the form of old paperwork, bank records of payment etc). It's like me saying you owe me £50 and expecting you to show I don't.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 15th May 18, 1:58 PM
    • 93,355 Posts
    • 60,858 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Yes I know!!!8217; it!!!8217;s not much use in law.... but the bank has no record to easily trump this.
    And no record at all either way trumps all of it.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • swinterton
    • By swinterton 15th May 18, 4:22 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    swinterton
    Thanks you all your help guys, is not possible to prove from the amount of payments (that we have proof of in the form of bank statements) that the amount borrowed over the period of time taking into consideration the interest rate at the time!!!8217; that something else must have been added to the loan/ repayments.
    uncle buck
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 15th May 18, 5:28 PM
    • 4,902 Posts
    • 2,969 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    40,000 loan, 500-600 pounds a month isn't unexpected - BoE interest rates in 1991 were 10-13% depending on when he took it out so commercial loan rates would have been higher. A very quick and dirty calculation of £40,000 over 10 years at only 11.6% would be £551.58 a month let alone adding on bank profits etc

    BoE base rates:

    Wed, 04 Sep 1991 10.3750
    Fri, 12 Jul 1991 10.8750
    Fri, 24 May 1991 11.3750
    Fri, 12 Apr 1991 11.8750
    Fri, 22 Mar 1991 12.3750
    Wed, 27 Feb 1991 12.8750
    Wed, 13 Feb 1991 13.3750
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 15th May 18, 11:43 PM
    • 20,590 Posts
    • 11,450 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    is it not possible to prove from the amount of payments that something else must have been added to the loan/ repayments.
    Originally posted by swinterton
    You really are grasping at straws now.

    It's really not possible for you to prove anything about your loan without detailed documentation which, not surprisingly, neither you nor the Bank have after three decades.

    You need to realise also that if you had PPI, you'd have to show that it was somehow mis-sold to you if you hoped to get a refund.

    Your complaint has fallen at the first hurdle I'm afraid.
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