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  • FIRST POST
    • ehone87
    • By ehone87 15th May 18, 11:08 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    ehone87
    PCM - initial letter wasn't franked!
    • #1
    • 15th May 18, 11:08 AM
    PCM - initial letter wasn't franked! 15th May 18 at 11:08 AM
    Hi there,
    I'm after some advice, as I thought that my parking charge had gone away, but it seems that PCM are determined to get me to pay, and I don't feel that they have gone about it correctly.
    On 27th Feb, I parked outside my Ford garage, literally for 5 minutes while they changed the battery in my fob. I was unaware that the roads are 'private' and that PCM have tiny signs stating you can't park anywhere on the estate.
    I received notification from Royal Mail on 6th March that there was a letter waiting for us with insufficient postage. I went to the sorting office to collect and didn't recognise it, there was not return address or any evidence as to who it was from, so I left it as it looked like junk mail and I didn't want to pay £2 for it. The member of staff told me that any liability always falls to the sender to ensure postage is paid.
    On 9th March, they sent a 'Keeper Liability' letter. I called them and advised that I had never received the first letter and that this could have been what was waiting at the sorting office. The young lady on the phone was extremely stroppy and informed me that it was my fault whatever, as soon as they press print its deemed as served. They assume it was received and sent first class. (as it goes, the 2 subsequent letters I've received have been sent 2nd class) I myself work in Residential Enforcement and am pretty sure that this is not the case. I can only prove that I have posted something if I send it recorded or hand deliver it.
    I wrote to them to advise that I did not feel that they had served the notice correctly and that the matter was finalised. I enclosed photographs of the envelope, which I've now been able to retrieve from the post office showing a completely blank envelope apart from the stickers that royal mail have added to it.
    They wrote back to me on Saturday to say;
    'Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above PCN. PCM are offering the drive 14 days to pay the reduced amount of £60 or make an appeal if you wish. After this time, the charge will increase to the fill(?) rate of £100'. It then provides payment details.

    I feel that this is really unfair and that they are at fault for not issuing it correctly in the first place. Am I right in saying they haven't served it correctly within 14 days under Schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012? Also, even if it was ok for them to issue the ticket and request payment, the 3 photographs that I can view online only show my car as stationery are date stamped, but you can only clearly read the time on one of them, which says 14:19:30. They've taken a photograph of a sign, I think at 14:21 but again, it's almost impossible to view. In this picture it's snowing though, and the photos of my car do not show any snow.

    Does anyone know if I am right in sticking to my guns and not paying this? I also read somewhere that you do get an amount of time to read and understand a sign - but I now can't find that again. If you go from 14:19 to 14:21 when they took a photograph of the sign, that's a mere 2 minutes, which surely can't be fair either?

    Any help or advice would really be very much appreciated.
    Thank you
Page 1
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 15th May 18, 11:39 AM
    • 1,284 Posts
    • 1,736 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #2
    • 15th May 18, 11:39 AM
    • #2
    • 15th May 18, 11:39 AM
    correct , a letter is deemed to be delivered providing the correct payment was made ,

    forget this as your primary appeal at the moment

    make an appeal using the template letter in the newbies section , not sure of the company , full name Please ?
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • ehone87
    • By ehone87 15th May 18, 12:03 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ehone87
    • #3
    • 15th May 18, 12:03 PM
    • #3
    • 15th May 18, 12:03 PM
    Hi, thank you for responding.
    they are called Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 15th May 18, 12:16 PM
    • 1,284 Posts
    • 1,736 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #4
    • 15th May 18, 12:16 PM
    • #4
    • 15th May 18, 12:16 PM
    the area in question , was this a no parking , or parking with permit area ,. if the latter then you should have been allowed time to read , / digest the signs and decide to stay or leave , or indeed produce a permit or pay for parking

    the second situation is covered under grace periods by the IPC , and would equal or exceed the 5 mins you state
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • ehone87
    • By ehone87 15th May 18, 12:21 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ehone87
    • #5
    • 15th May 18, 12:21 PM
    • #5
    • 15th May 18, 12:21 PM
    It says that I had parked within a restricted area. On the sign, which I've been back and now found and read, it says something along the lines of agreeing not to park on any roads within the industrial estate. The irony is there was a whole long line of parked cars, including a police car! there's a good 4 cars in view on the photograph they have taken.
    It is not a permit holder area nor do you pay to park.
    Do you know if it would be an idea to request copies of the photographs, which clearly show the time stamps?

    Many thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 3:17 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,030 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 3:17 PM
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 3:17 PM
    Ask for whatever you like, and you CAN try IAS because it's PCM who are not good at 'prima facie' cases.

    You will know from the NEWBIES thread FAQS that I say ''no IAS unless it's PCM''.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ehone87
    • By ehone87 17th May 18, 1:52 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ehone87
    • #7
    • 17th May 18, 1:52 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 18, 1:52 PM
    Hi,

    Ok, so should I use the letter template and send it to PCM directly and follow their procedure, or scrap that and go directly to the IPC?

    I'll be creating this today and sending first class recorded delivery tomorrow.

    Thank you for your help/advice
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 17th May 18, 4:11 PM
    • 2,669 Posts
    • 1,532 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #8
    • 17th May 18, 4:11 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 18, 4:11 PM
    Don't use recorded delivery, if they refuse delivery, your proof has gone. Go to Post Office and post it using First Class stamp and ask for a free proof of posting, sometimes called a certificate of posting. Staple that to a copy of your letter and file it with all your other papers relating to this issue.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 18, 12:23 AM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,030 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 18th May 18, 12:23 AM
    • #9
    • 18th May 18, 12:23 AM
    should I use the letter template and send it to PCM directly and follow their procedure, or scrap that and go directly to the IPC?
    What do you reckon, having read about the IAS as an option? What must you do first?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ehone87
    • By ehone87 22nd May 18, 8:54 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ehone87
    I'm sorry if I am not up to speed with these matters, but I have never encountered this type of situation before.

    I've just gone on to look at the photographs that they took to check if I can see the timing information and it says;

    The Parking Charge Notice could not be found

    Should I presume they've cancelled it? I don't really want to contact them to get the information. I don't know if they have failed now in taking this information away from me?

    I now have no idea what to do with my appeal.....do I carry on regardless? any help much appreciated.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 22nd May 18, 9:00 PM
    • 1,026 Posts
    • 1,977 Thanks
    Johnersh
    1. If not posted (fully paid) and first class there is no postal service. The fact you actually did receive it later is irrelevant.
    2. Subject to seeing signage, often a complete prohibition on parking makes it tricky for the PPC to assert that there was any parking contract at all. No offer to park = no acceptance of parking contract/terms.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • ehone87
    • By ehone87 22nd May 18, 9:28 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ehone87
    Hi,

    Thanks for coming back to me. So would you add that into the template letter? Or start a new one overall basically saying it wasnít sent correctly? Iím in a real quandary about what to do

    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd May 18, 11:54 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,030 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They wrote back to me on Saturday to say;
    'Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above PCN. PCM are offering the drive 14 days to pay the reduced amount of £60 or make an appeal if you wish. After this time, the charge will increase to the fill(?) rate of £100'. It then provides payment details.
    So did they offer IAS?

    Try that, if so.

    As you have already appealed, they should have offered IAS and with PCM, it is worth trying, because they are useless at stating their case...IMHO.

    Show us your draft IAS appeal.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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