Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • E5tw
    • By E5tw 13th May 18, 6:31 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 4Thanks
    E5tw
    Discretionary Trust Will Advice
    • #1
    • 13th May 18, 6:31 PM
    Discretionary Trust Will Advice 13th May 18 at 6:31 PM
    deleted now
    Last edited by E5tw; 04-11-2018 at 11:36 AM.
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 13th May 18, 6:33 PM
    • 33,874 Posts
    • 40,001 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 6:33 PM
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 6:33 PM
    Age of person making the will ?

    Can be challenged as deprivation of assets under certain circumstances if it's done purely to dodge potential care home fees
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th May 18, 6:49 PM
    • 4,701 Posts
    • 3,932 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 6:49 PM
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 6:49 PM
    Hi,

    So looking for some advice on a Discretionary Trust Will, the main asset is a freehold property with no debts.

    Specifically the Grandson whom is one of two beneficiaries alongside with the only surviving trustee (the Father).

    The document states the following;

    50% to the trustee (father) absolutely
    50% to the trust UPON TRUST to the Grandson if he reaches age 35 absolutely BUT if he fails to attain a vested interest for such or his children as survive him and if more than one in equal shares absolutely. This probably mean the house being sold. The Trustees need to get paid for professional advice on the tax implicatpions.


    What rights does the grandson have as the only NON trustee beneficiary? Are they entitled to income of trust as it!!!8217;s not specified either way. Otherwise, are they entitled to occupy the property without taking ownership?

    Thanks, E
    Originally posted by E5tw
    Regardless of what the will or trust deed says the full amount is payable when the grandson is 18. This is a very well established principle of English that has been discussedseveral times in this forum.there are no get outs or loopholes!
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 13-05-2018 at 7:23 PM.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 14th May 18, 1:12 AM
    • 1,684 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Brynsam
    • #4
    • 14th May 18, 1:12 AM
    • #4
    • 14th May 18, 1:12 AM
    Regardless of what the will or trust deed says the full amount is payable when the grandson is 18. This is a very well established principle of English that has been discussedseveral times in this forum.there are no get outs or loopholes!
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Not an accurate statement of the position. It has indeed been discussed but not always correctly. See https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/training-knowledge/guides/client-guide-use-discretionary-trusts/ and https://hullandhull.com/2018/01/saunders-v-vautier-mean/

    Can also speak from personal experience - I am a beneficiary under a discretionary trust in my late grandfather's will and am well beyond the age of 18, but can't access the loot for some time yet!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 14th May 18, 7:19 AM
    • 4,701 Posts
    • 3,932 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #5
    • 14th May 18, 7:19 AM
    • #5
    • 14th May 18, 7:19 AM
    Not an accurate statement of the position. It has indeed been discussed but not always correctly. See https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/training-knowledge/guides/client-guide-use-discretionary-trusts/ and https://hullandhull.com/2018/01/saunders-v-vautier-mean/

    Can also speak from personal experience - I am a beneficiary under a discretionary trust in my late grandfather's will and am well beyond the age of 18, but can't access the loot for some time yet!
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    In the OP.s case they are the only beneficiary AIUI so he IS entitled at 18. In view of the amount involved, and the tax implications the trustees need to get specific paid for advice rather that relying on an article on the web.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 14-05-2018 at 7:21 AM.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 14th May 18, 8:18 AM
    • 5,626 Posts
    • 6,385 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #6
    • 14th May 18, 8:18 AM
    • #6
    • 14th May 18, 8:18 AM
    I would love to know why someone thinks keeping a legacy back until the beneficiary is 35 is a good idea. They are saying they want them to have no access to the money to help with university costs, no access to help buy first house, get married and probably when having first child. Bonkers!
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 14th May 18, 8:54 AM
    • 1,684 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Brynsam
    • #7
    • 14th May 18, 8:54 AM
    • #7
    • 14th May 18, 8:54 AM
    In the OP.s case they are the only beneficiary AIUI so he IS entitled at 18. In view of the amount involved, and the tax implications the trustees need to get specific paid for advice rather that relying on an article on the web.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Absolutely (or relying on input from well-meaning non-lawyers on this forum). The reference was more for your benefit in this case! Without seeing the full provisions of the trust, making a sweeping statement that 'there are no get-outs or loopholes' is potentially hugely misleading.
    Last edited by Brynsam; 14-05-2018 at 9:11 AM.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 14th May 18, 8:59 AM
    • 1,684 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Brynsam
    • #8
    • 14th May 18, 8:59 AM
    • #8
    • 14th May 18, 8:59 AM
    I would love to know why someone thinks keeping a legacy back until the beneficiary is 35 is a good idea. They are saying they want them to have no access to the money to help with university costs, no access to help buy first house, get married and probably when having first child. Bonkers!
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    ... or losing a chunk of their inheritance because their early marriage goes wrong as so many do, and being left a single parent with a young child and nowhere to live a few years later. Godsend!

    Usually more than one side to why something is or isn't a good idea.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 14th May 18, 9:03 AM
    • 5,626 Posts
    • 6,385 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #9
    • 14th May 18, 9:03 AM
    • #9
    • 14th May 18, 9:03 AM
    ... or losing a chunk of their inheritance because their early marriage goes wrong as so many do, and being left a single parent with a young child and nowhere to live a few years later. Godsend!

    Usually more than one side to why something is or isn't a good idea.
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    What makes you think the trust would not be taken into account in the case of a divorce?
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 14th May 18, 9:12 AM
    • 1,684 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Brynsam
    What makes you think the trust would not be taken into account in the case of a divorce?
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    Many years of first hand experience - it is very rare that people include such a provision.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 14th May 18, 10:16 AM
    • 4,701 Posts
    • 3,932 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Absolutely (or relying on input from well-meaning non-lawyers on this forum). The reference was more for your benefit in this case! Without seeing the full provisions of the trust, making a sweeping statement that 'there are no get-outs or loopholes' is potentially hugely misleading.
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    You may think that but having taken specific legal advice for myself that is what my solicitor told me. She also stated that solicitors are STILL including these ineffectual clauses in wills today. With respect you will understand why I prefer her advice to that of anunknown stranger. Perhaps you could cite a recent case where the Saunders jubgement has been overturned or not upheld?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th May 18, 2:35 PM
    • 33,479 Posts
    • 20,231 Thanks
    getmore4less
    In the OP.s case they are the only beneficiary AIUI so he IS entitled at 18. In view of the amount involved, and the tax implications the trustees need to get specific paid for advice rather that relying on an article on the web.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    They are not the only potential beneficiary of the trust!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 14th May 18, 4:54 PM
    • 4,701 Posts
    • 3,932 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    As I read it the 18year is the ONLY remaining beneficiary. Have I misunderstood?
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th May 18, 5:57 PM
    • 11,536 Posts
    • 13,362 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    As I read it the 18year is the ONLY remaining beneficiary. Have I misunderstood?
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    I think so. His children could be beneficiaries.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 14th May 18, 6:39 PM
    • 4,701 Posts
    • 3,932 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Noted. Perhaps the OP would clarify. I am not sure that makes any difference since AFAIK the son can claim the lot now.
    • E5tw
    • By E5tw 14th May 18, 6:48 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    E5tw
    The beneficiaries are the grandson (18+) and the father.

    The father is the only remaining trustee and by the face of it is the only one left with control.

    The question isn’t clear as to what trust it is. It states “discretionary fund” but wasn’t set up pre-2006 so could potentially be an older A&M which has a mixture of discretionary and IIP...

    Thanks for your input so far.
    • E5tw
    • By E5tw 14th May 18, 6:50 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    E5tw
    Sorry, WAS set up pre 2006. Typo.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 15th May 18, 11:54 AM
    • 11,536 Posts
    • 13,362 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Noted. Perhaps the OP would clarify. I am not sure that makes any difference since AFAIK the son can claim the lot now.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    If the will specifies something like "all descendants alive at date of this will who reach the age of 35 otherwise X" is that not a "loophole" in the law about age 18?
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 15-05-2018 at 2:57 PM.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

38Posts Today

2,971Users online

Martin's Twitter