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  • FIRST POST
    • HarryCrumb
    • By HarryCrumb 13th May 18, 5:57 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 6Thanks
    HarryCrumb
    Failure to display permit - Need advice
    • #1
    • 13th May 18, 5:57 PM
    Failure to display permit - Need advice 13th May 18 at 5:57 PM
    Dear MSE forum,

    I have read through the Newbies sticky thread, and have read the section on residents parking areas, and the links to the pranksters blog but I am still finding it incredibly difficult to know what to do here. Also, I keep reading that under no circumstances should I admit to being the driver, which I already have done prior to finding this website.

    I live in a tower block that has a car park for residents only. I do not own the apartment, I rent it. When I moved in the caretaker gave me a permit for the car park. As I donít have a tax disc holder in my windscreen I use the sun visor to hold my permit. One day I forgot to fold it down and the next day I had a ticket.

    The ticket was given toward the end of March, 2018. As I held a valid permit I thought that the best thing to do was to follow the appeal advice stated on the ticket. I emailed them with my details and included a photo of my permit displayed in my windscreen and a utility bill to prove I was a resident. I also gave the following details;

    Parking charge no. (the correct no.)
    Vehicle reg. (my vehicle reg)
    Driver Name. (my name)
    Driver Address. (my address - where the ticket was received)

    I explained what had happened and have been waiting this whole time for a reply from the appeal but nothing showed up. Yesterday I got a written demand from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd for a rather large charge. The topmost thing it says it that they are writing to me because I have not paid their client. I have been stressing about this for the last 24hrs and this morning I went through my junk email and found a reply from Secure-A-Space stating that my appeal had been rejected. That had been sent early April. They offered a discounted rate but the date passed some time ago.

    After reading through some of this website I am less worried than I was about the debt recovery letter but I am confused as to what I should do next and starting to feel very anxious.

    My main thoughts here are that I am a resident, with a valid permit, and that for them to charge me money is immoral and close to some sort of theft. It pains me to have to hand money over to them. However, I also see that technically I might be in the wrong if I wasnít clearly displaying the permit and I also messed up by telling them I was the driver. Also, there is a notice in the entrance to the building stating that the caretaker and the management company take no responsibility for any parking tickets.


    If someone with experience in this matter could point me in the right direction I would be very grateful.


    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 13th May 18, 6:20 PM
    • 10,665 Posts
    • 10,042 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 6:20 PM
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 6:20 PM
    Oh come on - there are a multitude of similar cases covering tenants renting from leaseholders getting tickets on this forum. Search for them.

    You have missed the initial appeal, but if it's a BPA PPC, you could try your luck in asking for a POPLA number, if not already in the junk email.

    If not, then because there is so much already on this forum in the last 2-3 weeks covering your situation, then search and delve as all we would be doing is repeating information already out there.

    But as a starter, you need to be concentrating on your landlord's lease with the landholder and what it says or otherwise about parking.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th May 18, 8:45 PM
    • 19,921 Posts
    • 25,215 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 8:45 PM
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 8:45 PM
    and a piece of A4 paper posted in the foyer does not exempt any agent or landlord or landowner from being jointly and legallly liable for the actions of the contractors they have employed

    so read the daniel san and hairray threads to see exactly what can and should be done , and why

    IGNORE the debt collectors, they are powerless

    for now you need to be doing what guys dad says above and forewarning and forearming yourself before any MCOL hits your doormat
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • HarryCrumb
    • By HarryCrumb 14th May 18, 3:29 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    HarryCrumb
    • #4
    • 14th May 18, 3:29 AM
    • #4
    • 14th May 18, 3:29 AM
    Thank you very much for the replies. I'm sorry that there are other threads that I did not see, but I spent several hours today reading this website and several more just now. My head was spinning earlier, but now things are at least starting to clear up.

    Looking at the rejection email that I found in my junk mail (from the initial appeal I made to Secure-A-Space) there is a POPLA number given, but the 28 day limit has passed already. I had expected a written reply to this appeal, to arrive by post, not my junk mail. On the POPLA website it states that late appeals can be accepted but only under exceptional circumstances. Tomorrow I will try to contact Secure-A-Space and request a new written copy of the appeal refusal, dated from tomorrows date. Failing that I will attempt a POPLA appeal with the existing number, claiming exceptional circumstances.

    The last paragraph of the appeal refusal from Secure-A-Space is a little confusing, in that they mention a separate way to appeal but then claim not to use it;

    "You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternate dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such, should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above. "


    As far as I am aware, the owner of this flat (whom I have never met) owns one of the garages downstairs, which would be her parking space, but she rents it to a business. For that reason the caretaker was kind enough to give me a spare permit so that I could park in one of the un-numbered outdoor spaces. None of the spaces are allocated, only the garages. Tomorrow I will contact the agency and ask them to ask the owner if there is anything stated in the lease about parking permits.

    I sincerely appreciate any help given to me here so far. This is all very new to me. I would be grateful if someone could answer one more question, whilst I am investigating further.

    If this goes to court, and I lose, how bad is it likely to get for me?


    Thank you.
    Last edited by HarryCrumb; 14-05-2018 at 1:29 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th May 18, 4:54 PM
    • 63,887 Posts
    • 76,547 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 14th May 18, 4:54 PM
    • #5
    • 14th May 18, 4:54 PM
    Looking at the rejection email that I found in my junk mail (from the initial appeal I made to Secure-A-Space) there is a POPLA number given, but the 28 day limit has passed already.
    POPLA codes last 32 days, did you test the code today on the POPLA website?

    If this goes to court, and I lose, how bad is it likely to get for me?
    In 2017, out of hundreds of posters who were fully coached with defences through to hearings, only TWO people lost.

    Guess what happened to them? Nothing, nowt bad; they just paid £150-£200. No CCJ.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • HarryCrumb
    • By HarryCrumb 15th May 18, 12:30 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    HarryCrumb
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 12:30 AM
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 12:30 AM
    Hello CM, and thanks for the reply. Sadly it has been more than 32 days (POPLA's website says 28) so I hadn't tried it. I doubt it will work now but maybe I should try...?

    I don't believe I've had a NTK yet... If I admitted to being the driver in my first appeal directly to them, does that mean I don't get one?

    Thank you for reasurring me about the outcome of not winning. I'm being aske to pay £160 at the moment so I'm more than happy to risk the challange.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 12:39 AM
    • 63,887 Posts
    • 76,547 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 15th May 18, 12:39 AM
    • #7
    • 15th May 18, 12:39 AM
    If I admitted to being the driver in my first appeal directly to them, does that mean I don't get one?
    Yes, you threw that away. No NTK needed once the driver is admitted (ouch).

    So wait and see if Secure-A-Space try a claim.

    Please please no posts about debt collector letters. Spare us:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74284697#post74284697

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • HarryCrumb
    • By HarryCrumb 15th May 18, 12:59 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    HarryCrumb
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 12:59 AM
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 12:59 AM
    Ah, another night owl.... If you're still here, do you mind just clarifying this for me. I've messed up the NTK. And probably misssed the chance to appeal to POPLA....

    ...so should I do nothing more than just wait now? I'm not sure if you've read from the start of the thread but I already have one unspeakable letter from unspeakable department of recovery...

    Or does a proper claim come in a different form?

    Thanks again!
    Last edited by HarryCrumb; 15-05-2018 at 1:04 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 1:15 AM
    • 63,887 Posts
    • 76,547 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 1:15 AM
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 1:15 AM
    Debt collectors can't sue, but you'll know that from post #4 of the NEWBIES thread.

    Google image search court claim form and that's what arrives.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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