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  • FIRST POST
    • jaxxy00
    • By jaxxy00 13th May 18, 12:16 PM
    • 994Posts
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    jaxxy00
    PIP CQ System Failure!! Whats that?
    • #1
    • 13th May 18, 12:16 PM
    PIP CQ System Failure!! Whats that? 13th May 18 at 12:16 PM
    Hi, ive not posted before but hope im doing this in the right part.

    Ive just had to claim PIP having had DLA previously. I used to get high levels for both parts. Ive had my decision for PIP and its high for mobility but low for daily living. This i dont agree with. I have many health issues including M.E, Bipolar, fatty liver, Hiatus Hernia, High blood pressure, chronic back problems ( disk disease, disk bulges), T.I.A's, Sjogrens disease, unstable bladder (use prescribed pads), endometriosis, P.V.D., I.B.S., Heart problems (leaky valve, 1st degree av block), dissociative disorder. All included and confirmed in my doctors letters/notes. Now i know its not what you have wrong but all these conditions impact on my life considerably.

    In the report i requested, it states nothing whatsoever about my M.E. which i dont understand why. Also there are a lot of differences to what is made a note of compared to what i told him. Also a shocking major fact wrong which is, im supposed to sleep on the sofa every night and not visit upstairs at all and have a bathroom downstairs!! I wish i did have a bathroom downstairs. Would save me struggling upstairs to the toilet everytime i needed it which is a lot of times a day due to having bladder issues. Others are, i havent been provided with a blue badge which i have. I dont have hearing aids but i do. I had a blackout while driving thats why my licence was taken which is not true. I have blackouts 4-5 times a week which is untrue, its actually 4-5 times per day. Plus other facts wrong. ALso contradictions in some of the facts he has put.

    Another unusual thing is in the box underneath where they state why they have given you the points they have, it starts off by saying on every single descriptor 'Ability to complete the activity was not available to view in the section of CQ prior to assesment due to system failure. However the FH shows...........'. What is this all about? I have no idea. I can only assume it means they didnt have access to my claim form or part of it or something like that. It sounds like it really hasnt done me any favours. My doctor did a page for each descriptor for me and signed to say which i could and couldnt do. I sent in lots of info too. Which info do you think it is they havent been able to access?

    I understand i have to ask for a MR if im going to but im unsure whether to do that. Can they award less than ive already been given and if its the same decision given again do i have to go to a tribunal or can i just stick with what i have? Also if waiting for a MR decision will i still get the rate i have been awarded for now or will all PIP be stopped until a decision is made?

    Now the crucial part is, due to having mood disorders, i didnt want to open the report when i first got it as it felt like very personal to me and i didnt want to know what someone else really thought of me. So i opened it a few days ago. Seeing all the errors etc i have been questioning what to do and at first i thought i will ask for MR then i thought no, i will accept what ive got. Now im thinking again to ask for the MR but my time is up this Monday (it will be 28 days Monday) Ive seen this is the latest i have so want to know what ohters think i should do. Im really torn.

    I do have other things to ask but it seems ive asked lots already so will leave it as it is for now.
    Thankyou for reading.
Page 1
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 13th May 18, 12:26 PM
    • 1,713 Posts
    • 2,293 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 12:26 PM
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 12:26 PM
    Guide to MR here.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

    Some answers

    As you will see from the link they consider the whole award while carrying out an MR

    The award you have been given continues. It doesn't stop because you have asked for an MR

    Yes. You can stop at the MR stage. It's worth saying, though, that more decisions get changed at Tribunal than at MR

    If you ring DWP they will, usually, give you an extension (14 days) but see the comments in the link.

    I'd say it would be a good idea for you to get help with the MR from CAB/advice centre.
    • wellynever
    • By wellynever 13th May 18, 2:14 PM
    • 763 Posts
    • 1,032 Thanks
    wellynever
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 2:14 PM
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 2:14 PM
    QC = Client Questionnaire

    FH = Function History

    Edit to add QC can refer to customer questionnaire

    Seems they didn't or could not have read the PIP2
    Last edited by wellynever; 13-05-2018 at 2:53 PM.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 13th May 18, 3:14 PM
    • 2,571 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #4
    • 13th May 18, 3:14 PM
    • #4
    • 13th May 18, 3:14 PM
    Hi, ive not posted before but hope im doing this in the right part.

    Ive just had to claim PIP having had DLA previously. I used to get high levels for both parts. Ive had my decision for PIP and its high for mobility but low for daily living. This i dont agree with. I have many health issues including M.E, Bipolar, fatty liver, Hiatus Hernia, High blood pressure, chronic back problems ( disk disease, disk bulges), T.I.A's, Sjogrens disease, unstable bladder (use prescribed pads), endometriosis, P.V.D., I.B.S., Heart problems (leaky valve, 1st degree av block), dissociative disorder. All included and confirmed in my doctors letters/notes. Now i know its not what you have wrong but all these conditions impact on my life considerably.

    In the report i requested, it states nothing whatsoever about my M.E. which i dont understand why. Also there are a lot of differences to what is made a note of compared to what i told him. Also a shocking major fact wrong which is, im supposed to sleep on the sofa every night and not visit upstairs at all and have a bathroom downstairs!! I wish i did have a bathroom downstairs. Would save me struggling upstairs to the toilet everytime i needed it which is a lot of times a day due to having bladder issues. Others are, i havent been provided with a blue badge which i have. I dont have hearing aids but i do. I had a blackout while driving thats why my licence was taken which is not true. I have blackouts 4-5 times a week which is untrue, its actually 4-5 times per day. Plus other facts wrong. ALso contradictions in some of the facts he has put.

    Another unusual thing is in the box underneath where they state why they have given you the points they have, it starts off by saying on every single descriptor 'Ability to complete the activity was not available to view in the section of CQ prior to assesment due to system failure. However the FH shows...........'. What is this all about? I have no idea. I can only assume it means they didnt have access to my claim form or part of it or something like that. It sounds like it really hasnt done me any favours. My doctor did a page for each descriptor for me and signed to say which i could and couldnt do. I sent in lots of info too. Which info do you think it is they havent been able to access?

    I understand i have to ask for a MR if im going to but im unsure whether to do that. Can they award less than ive already been given and if its the same decision given again do i have to go to a tribunal or can i just stick with what i have? Also if waiting for a MR decision will i still get the rate i have been awarded for now or will all PIP be stopped until a decision is made?

    Now the crucial part is, due to having mood disorders, i didnt want to open the report when i first got it as it felt like very personal to me and i didnt want to know what someone else really thought of me. So i opened it a few days ago. Seeing all the errors etc i have been questioning what to do and at first i thought i will ask for MR then i thought no, i will accept what ive got. Now im thinking again to ask for the MR but my time is up this Monday (it will be 28 days Monday) Ive seen this is the latest i have so want to know what ohters think i should do. Im really torn.

    I do have other things to ask but it seems ive asked lots already so will leave it as it is for now.
    Thankyou for reading.
    Originally posted by jaxxy00
    The first thing you need to do is look to see where you can possibly gain those extra points that's needed for Enhanced Daily living. How many points did you score for this? 12 points are needed for Enhanced.
    See PIP descriptors here.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf

    Once you've taken another look at those descriptors then you can decide if you want to take the MR route.

    How long is your award for? Reviews for PIP are done 1 year before the award is due to end.

    If you take the MR route then you'll need to ring them tomorrow to ask for extra time. Then start your letter of request stating what you disagree with and where you think you should have scored those points. You may not have time to get help from CAB or the likes at this point.

    As has already been stated you do risk losing what you already have because they will look at the whole award again. Only 20% of decisions change at MR stage.
    • jaxxy00
    • By jaxxy00 13th May 18, 3:27 PM
    • 994 Posts
    • 571 Thanks
    jaxxy00
    • #5
    • 13th May 18, 3:27 PM
    • #5
    • 13th May 18, 3:27 PM
    QC = Client Questionnaire

    FH = Function History

    Edit to add QC can refer to customer questionnaire

    Seems they didn't or could not have read the PIP2
    Originally posted by wellynever
    What is the PIP2 please? Thankyou
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 13th May 18, 3:33 PM
    • 1,713 Posts
    • 2,293 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #6
    • 13th May 18, 3:33 PM
    • #6
    • 13th May 18, 3:33 PM
    What is the PIP2 please? Thankyou
    Originally posted by jaxxy00
    It's the PIP claim form you completed to start the process
    • jaxxy00
    • By jaxxy00 13th May 18, 3:40 PM
    • 994 Posts
    • 571 Thanks
    jaxxy00
    • #7
    • 13th May 18, 3:40 PM
    • #7
    • 13th May 18, 3:40 PM
    Poppy12345 my award is for 5 years and i scored 9 points for daily living ( feel i should have got 40 points) and scored 12 points for mobility ( feel i should have scored 24 although i know that wouldnt have made a difference but just saying).

    Should i concentrate on where he has contradicted himself which could have gained me more points or where he has just got things wrong such as my endometriosis is controlled by medication ( which is not true as i have no medication for controlling it. I dont even think theres medication to control it).

    He states i physically need help to get on and off the toilet yet in the descriptors instead of giving the answer for 4 or even 6 points hes given me just 2 points ( needs an aid). Journeys he states i have no problem yet i told him because of blackouts i cant go anywhere without somebody. Plus more wrong.
    • w06
    • By w06 13th May 18, 4:20 PM
    • 580 Posts
    • 871 Thanks
    w06
    • #8
    • 13th May 18, 4:20 PM
    • #8
    • 13th May 18, 4:20 PM
    it would seem quite unlikely that you qualify for 40 points on the daily living section. You need to objectively look at the descriptors and describe why you think that you meet a different one than the one that has been awarded.

    Things such as endometriosis, first degree heart block, fatty liver, hiatus hernia, high blood pressure are very unlikely to be associated with any of the descriptors.

    Look objectively and do your MR objectively, it may be that the points awarded are correct, even if the wording of the report is wrong in places
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th May 18, 5:02 PM
    • 2,022 Posts
    • 2,340 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #9
    • 13th May 18, 5:02 PM
    • #9
    • 13th May 18, 5:02 PM
    This is a good guide to the appeal process:
    https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

    Here are how the descriptors should be interpreted:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/665635/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf

    Bear in mind that appealing involves time deadlines and quite a lot of proactive work. If you've only just been able to open the decision letter, you may find this difficult.

    An Enhanced DL award is an additional 28 pw. You need to balance this against the stress of an appeal.

    w06 is right, it is very, very unlikely that you qualify for 40 points on the daily living section. You do need to objectively look at the descriptors - the assessment guide will give you an indication of how points should be awarded.
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 13-05-2018 at 5:06 PM.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • Nannytone
    • By Nannytone 13th May 18, 5:09 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 136 Thanks
    Nannytone
    Regardless of what you think you should have got. A PIP award is only made on the descriptors you have evidence for.

    To score 40 points would indicate that you have multiple overlapping conditions. The points will only apply once/B]
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 13th May 18, 6:15 PM
    • 2,571 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    poppy12345
    I think you really do need to carefully go through all the PIP descriptors again. 40 points is an awful lot for someone to think they should have scored.
    • venison
    • By venison 13th May 18, 7:39 PM
    • 2,047 Posts
    • 2,192 Thanks
    venison
    Your OP seems to concentrate a lot on the illnesses you have and not on the care you need, is that how you put it over when applying?
    Ex Board Guide
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 13th May 18, 8:14 PM
    • 3,534 Posts
    • 2,393 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    Poppy12345 my award is for 5 years and i scored 9 points for daily living ( feel i should have got 40 points) and scored 12 points for mobility ( feel i should have scored 24 although i know that wouldnt have made a difference but just saying).

    Should i concentrate on where he has contradicted himself which could have gained me more points or where he has just got things wrong such as my endometriosis is controlled by medication ( which is not true as i have no medication for controlling it. I dont even think theres medication to control it).

    He states i physically need help to get on and off the toilet yet in the descriptors instead of giving the answer for 4 or even 6 points hes given me just 2 points ( needs an aid). Journeys he states i have no problem yet i told him because of blackouts i cant go anywhere without somebody. Plus more wrong.
    Originally posted by jaxxy00
    As others has said, you probably need to go through again and read the descriptors carefully.I have have never seen anyone score anything close to 40. Are you adding up more than one set of points under each heading.

    For example, you said he notes that you need physical help getting on and off the toilet. It is likely he thought that if you had a raised toilet seat and/or grab rails you could manage this task. If you are saying that even with a raised toilet seat/grab rails you can't get off the toilet without a person physically helping you - then you need to explain why and provide evidence to support that.

    IQ
    Last edited by Icequeen99; 13-05-2018 at 8:16 PM.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 13th May 18, 8:32 PM
    • 2,571 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    poppy12345
    This PIP self test will give you some idea what you could possible score. You can only tick one box for each descriptor because as others have said you can only score points once in each descriptor.
    http://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/pip/indexxx.php
    • jaxxy00
    • By jaxxy00 14th May 18, 6:26 PM
    • 994 Posts
    • 571 Thanks
    jaxxy00
    Sorry everyone for slow replies but everytime i come on to see i have to request a new password, then wait for the email to come through with a link. Then i have to click on the link which then sends another email with the actual password in. WHich is 16 characters long!! Not even sure where to change it when i log in.

    Anyway, when i filled the form in ( although it seems that or other evidence may have not been seen) i didnt concentrate on my illnesses but the care i needed because of them. I scored 9 points instead of the 12 needed for high care. I just think to myself if only he had put down my 2 hearing aids i would have scored 2 points for them and then where he has put that i need help getting on and off the toilet, if he had put that correctly in the descriptor scoring box i would have had more points than needed. Thats without all the other points i feel i should have got for not being able to wash myself at all, dress myself at all, or cook for myself at all. Thats the highest scoring parts. Then points on the other descriptors too.

    Well today was my last day of being able to do naything and after much discussion last night we have decided that im going to leave things as they are and not risk the award being dropped. I feel that after all the stories you hear about PIP that i should be grateful for having got what i did. So thankyou everybody who has answered me. Enjoy your day.
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