Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • bundance
    • By bundance 12th May 18, 3:09 PM
    • 1,068Posts
    • 349Thanks
    bundance
    Avoiding leaving unsaleable and financially burdensome property to loved ones after I die
    • #1
    • 12th May 18, 3:09 PM
    Avoiding leaving unsaleable and financially burdensome property to loved ones after I die 12th May 18 at 3:09 PM
    Hi

    I have a leasehold flat which is unsaleable for various reasons.
    I don't really want to post these reasons on a public forum but if someone knowledeable wants to pm me I can go into more detail.
    Basically the lease is breached irremediably through structural alterations. the damage done has left the property vulenrable to further damage so bottom line, if i die and write a will, my poor relatives will be paying out for it for the rest of their lives and it will cause misery for generations.
    I don't want this.
    I can afford to make a simple will for a few hundred pounds but am worried that the complexities will mean that the price of making this will, will be out of my reach.
    If I die intestate, I have been advised by a solicitor that the relatives will get the property (if the mortgage is paid off, whether I like it or not or whether they like it or not)
    Bottom line, I want to avoid leaving a legacy of financial misery and liability to my loved ones.
    As above, willing to go into further detail in a pm to a knowledgeable person.
    I am expecting a phone call from a solicitor on Monday but I cannot stop worrying in the meantime that this situation of not being able to afford a roo-complex will, or dying intestate and leaving my relatives with no choice but to take on the property.
    There are issues like alterations causing vulnerabilitites like dry rot, past waterleaks possibly causing dry rot between storeys, as floors are concrete, voids between floors unventilated and lower flats having false timber ceilings. I can smell a rotten smell in between my skirting board and concrete floor when it rains.
    I spoke to an independent damp surveyor who said the only way I can tell if the downstairs flats have dry rot hiding above the plasterboard in thier ceilings, is to open them up, but the freeholder doesn't want that. so, you can see, how the flat would be unsaleable.
    PS I've had visits by an independent accredited damp surveyor.
    Any help appreciated.
    Last edited by bundance; 12-05-2018 at 3:11 PM.
Page 6
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 16th May 18, 6:13 PM
    • 10,604 Posts
    • 12,136 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    One last post from me and then I'm really out

    A solicitor would not, in a million years have said what the OP posted about there being a possibility the relatives would be forced to take the flat on and thus be landed with a liability.

    There is zero chance a solicitor said that. Zero.

    So, if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, then draw your own conclusions.
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:16 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    Did you relentlessly force the question until she told you what you want to hear?


    Your flat is not the liability you believe it is. Worst case scenario, your 100k flat has dry rot and needs 30k to put right. Your beneficiaries can sell it for 70k.


    When you die the executors can put the flat on the market. Potential buyers will do their own surveys and value it accordingly. As there is no sign of dry rot it's worth its full value.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    No, when the solicitor returned the call we were only on the phone a short time.
    Thanks
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:18 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    Why don't you just get your flat valued? You may be pleasantly surprised. You don't actually KNOW that there are any problems.

    Then if you can afford it, sell and move elsewhere. You will then not have to worry about the flat.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    I've had my flat valued twice in the past, but just like when the old owner put it up for sale both estate agents valued it at market rate, but they did not take into account the alterations as they weren't to know and estate agents wouldnt advertise unauthorised alterations on a leasehold flat as its gonna put people off
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:24 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    What advice would you like, that you haven't already heard from multiple people?

    Even if your flat is a ticking time bomb that will only sell for 20p and half a Mars bar, and cost eleventy million pounds to put right (and this is clearly not the case - much worse property than yours sells to someone every single day, and further, it's far from established that your flat would actually sell at anything other than its market value, because you don't even know whether it's got the Dread Dry Rot or not), it has been made abundantly crystal clear that your beneficiaries can just walk away from it - with the absolutely worst case being that your estate is worth nothing, and they therefore inherit nothing - including no debts or liabilities.
    Originally posted by quantumlobster
    Somone on here posted this link which says
    "If someone dies and leaves you money or property, you're under no obligation to accept it. Perhaps you want the inheritance to go to someone else, or maybe you don't want to deal with the potential tax consequences of the inheritance. Whatever your reason, you have to be careful in how you decline the inheritance --- or you just might wind up with it after all."

    The solicitor said she may not write a will for me, but the reasons why are too personal to put on open forum, however i am more than happy to discuss them in pm. (resons why are not to do with the flat itself)
    She said if I die intestate, she could not say whether or not the family would be forced to take the flat as we only had a short time on the phone.
    As its complex I can't afford hours of solicitor time and she said she would need to look into the matter in more detail, meaning me spending more money.

    So, although families can contest wills and disclaim inheritances I am still stuck as to whether or not they will be forced to accept the flat if i die intestate, as the solicitor was not prepared to say if that was the case or not on the phone.
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:28 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    Then why don't you listen? Why do you keep repeating the same question, over and over, despite 100 people answering it the same way until one person says something ambiguous, then seize on that and say "ah, so I might leave a liability!"

    I don't know who or what you are. What I can tell you is that a troll who only wanted to prolong the thread and didn't care about anything else would act exactly the way you are acting. So it's perfectly reasonable that people will see you behaving like a troll and assume you are one.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I only started doubting when the solicitor said she may not be prepared to write a will and that she could not tell me if the family would have to take on the flat if i died intestate.
    If she said she would do me a will, I would not be doubting due to the very good advice on here.
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:29 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    Someone in the grip of raging anxiety would also behave like this.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    I am anxious but definitely not a troll.
    It was because the solicitor was not able to categorically say my family would not be stuck with the flat if i did intestate due to her not being prepared to write a will (reason-personal but happy to disclose in a pm)
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:30 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    I know this poster from another forum - she is not a troll but does have anxiety issues that focus on her flat which she cannot accept is not as problematic as her anxiety is telling her it is. She posts for advice but unfortunately is unable to accept any assurances that she's not going to be sued/it won't be a burden on her family/she's not ruining her neighbour's flats because she can't afford repairs/she hasn't broken the terms of her lease and so on. Clearly it is a powerful anxiety condition, so please be gentle with her!
    Originally posted by cloo
    Thanks Cloo
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:33 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    You thanked my post (#81) above but I can only assume you didn't bother reading the link. Bolded part above is quite simply rubbish.
    Originally posted by parkrunner
    I did read the link and took note that you have to be really careful how you decline the inheriance as you might wind up with the inheritance after all.
    I only took the bolded bit seriously because the high street solicitor could not, on the phone, rule out the possibility of my family being saddled with the flat.

    I think I know why i wind people up cos I need specifics. This is due to possible autistic traits I have.
    Last edited by bundance; 16-05-2018 at 7:40 PM.
    • bundance
    • By bundance 16th May 18, 7:44 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    One last post from me and then I'm really out

    A solicitor would not, in a million years have said what the OP posted about there being a possibility the relatives would be forced to take the flat on and thus be landed with a liability.

    There is zero chance a solicitor said that. Zero.

    So, if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, then draw your own conclusions.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Sorry my bad choice of words, solicitor could not rule out on the phone that the relatives would be left with the flat if i died intestate, she said i would have to give her more details not just a quick phone call. As for medical help, thats personal but happy to disclose more details on pm
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 16th May 18, 8:27 PM
    • 8,523 Posts
    • 8,980 Thanks
    davidmcn
    I think I know why i wind people up cos I need specifics.
    Originally posted by bundance
    We've given you specifics. You appear to be rejecting them in favour of something rather ambiguous.
    • quantumlobster
    • By quantumlobster 17th May 18, 8:50 AM
    • 198 Posts
    • 435 Thanks
    quantumlobster
    Somone on here posted this link which says
    "If someone dies and leaves you money or property, you're under no obligation to accept it. Perhaps you want the inheritance to go to someone else, or maybe you don't want to deal with the potential tax consequences of the inheritance. Whatever your reason, you have to be careful in how you decline the inheritance --- or you just might wind up with it after all."

    So, although families can contest wills and disclaim inheritances I am still stuck as to whether or not they will be forced to accept the flat if i die intestate.
    Originally posted by bundance
    No you're not. The words you've quoted say exactly what you want to hear - it's just careful to point out that one needs to dot the Is and cross the Ts. But that's hardly unusual in legal matters.
    • quantumlobster
    • By quantumlobster 17th May 18, 8:51 AM
    • 198 Posts
    • 435 Thanks
    quantumlobster
    I've had my flat valued twice in the past, but just like when the old owner put it up for sale both estate agents valued it at market rate, but they did not take into account the alterations as they weren't to know and estate agents wouldnt advertise unauthorised alterations on a leasehold flat as its gonna put people off
    Originally posted by bundance
    That's what surveys are for.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 17th May 18, 9:07 AM
    • 2,640 Posts
    • 4,180 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Thanks Cloo
    Originally posted by bundance
    Is Cloo correct then - is there absolutely no point in anyone saying anything to you, because you are not going to accept it?

    How can you completely ignore the conversation about your mental health that has just occurred?
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 17th May 18, 9:12 AM
    • 1,304 Posts
    • 904 Thanks
    dunroving
    The OP has asked for advice and received plenty of good advice from the helpful and selfless people on this forum.

    Whether OP accepts that advice is up to her, and I think public discussion of her mental health and trying to ram said previous advice down her throat probably isn't helping any. Can we not just leave well alone for a while? Just a thought.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 17th May 18, 11:02 AM
    • 6,791 Posts
    • 8,889 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    I only started doubting when the solicitor said she may not be prepared to write a will and that she could not tell me if the family would have to take on the flat if i died intestate.
    If she said she would do me a will, I would not be doubting due to the very good advice on here.
    Originally posted by bundance
    The family would not have to take on the flat if you died intestate. They would not have to do anything at all.
    They can still decline a legacy, whether it comes under a will or via intestacy. They cannot be made to administer the estate.

    In terms of making a will, the only reason you might not be able to make a will would be if the solicitor felt you lacked the mental capacity to do so. This can be a complex area as capacity can fluctuate.

    Normally, where someone's capacity may vary (for instance due to mental health issues) the solicitor would suggest a medical assessment / report to determine whether the testator has capacity and that would take into account the specific capacity to make a will. It's not something a solicitor could normally determine in a short phone call, so I suspect that she was simply flagging up the fact that it might be something she would need to review when she met you.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 17th May 18, 12:58 PM
    • 8,524 Posts
    • 9,657 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    Somone on here posted this link which says
    "If someone dies and leaves you money or property, you're under no obligation to accept it. Perhaps you want the inheritance to go to someone else, or maybe you don't want to deal with the potential tax consequences of the inheritance. Whatever your reason, you have to be careful in how you decline the inheritance --- or you just might wind up with it after all."
    Originally posted by bundance
    1. The author of that article is American.
    2. The Robinson & Cole, LLP cited is an American law firm.
    3. Both the other references given are also American.
    4. The specific term 'inheritance disclaimant' produces only American websites.

    There's nothing to suggest that article is anything other than a piece of puff lifted from another website or someone who writes blog posts for a fiver an hour, written for an American audience and repurposed by PocketPence as clickbait.

    You're placing far too much reliance on one inexpert and unreliable article.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • bundance
    • By bundance 17th May 18, 5:10 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    No you're not. The words you've quoted say exactly what you want to hear - it's just careful to point out that one needs to dot the Is and cross the Ts. But that's hardly unusual in legal matters.
    Originally posted by quantumlobster
    Thank you for clarifying this.
    • bundance
    • By bundance 17th May 18, 5:11 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    Is Cloo correct then - is there absolutely no point in anyone saying anything to you, because you are not going to accept it?

    How can you completely ignore the conversation about your mental health that has just occurred?
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I just don't want to put personal things on a public forum.
    • bundance
    • By bundance 17th May 18, 5:13 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    bundance
    1. The author of that article is American.
    2. The Robinson & Cole, LLP cited is an American law firm.
    3. Both the other references given are also American.
    4. The specific term 'inheritance disclaimant' produces only American websites.

    There's nothing to suggest that article is anything other than a piece of puff lifted from another website or someone who writes blog posts for a fiver an hour, written for an American audience and repurposed by PocketPence as clickbait.

    You're placing far too much reliance on one inexpert and unreliable article.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver
    I understand.
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 17th May 18, 5:17 PM
    • 1,390 Posts
    • 2,185 Thanks
    parkrunner
    1. The author of that article is American.
    2. The Robinson & Cole, LLP cited is an American law firm.
    3. Both the other references given are also American.
    4. The specific term 'inheritance disclaimant' produces only American websites.

    There's nothing to suggest that article is anything other than a piece of puff lifted from another website or someone who writes blog posts for a fiver an hour, written for an American audience and repurposed by PocketPence as clickbait.

    You're placing far too much reliance on one inexpert and unreliable article.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver
    Here you go then,

    In general law, a beneficiary has the right to
    • renounce a gift made to them under a will,
    • disclaim their interest under an intestacy.

    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm35161
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

143Posts Today

1,383Users online

Martin's Twitter