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  • FIRST POST
    • Alistair31
    • By Alistair31 11th May 18, 7:21 PM
    • 55Posts
    • 61Thanks
    Alistair31
    Foul play - Any chance of recovery ?
    • #1
    • 11th May 18, 7:21 PM
    Foul play - Any chance of recovery ? 11th May 18 at 7:21 PM
    Hello all,

    Firstly apologies if this is in wrong place or is a bit long, I!!!8217;ll try to keep it to minimum.

    My grandfather died in Feb 17, his will stated everything to my aunt and nothing to my father. Totally cut out despite having a copy of previous will that stated 50/50. Hey ho.
    My dad is in the process of claiming his legal rights, which I believe is a half of a half of the value of the estate. However! It has transpired that in 2011 (when the most recent will was written) my aunt was also made joint account holder on my grandfathers accounts. (He was house bound from around 2010 until death in 2017). There was no survivor nomination on these accounts and hence the remaining balance forms part of the estate.

    The interesting bit, she (my aunt) plundered his accounts to the tune of 120,000 ! 70k from ATM withdrawalls, 200 at a time mostly. The other 50k in cheques, no details yet who they were written to or signed by but my grandfather never spent a penny until 2011 and was very very very tight;. All his bills were paid from his own accounts and carers provided meals etc for several years before his death.

    My question is, is there any possibility of claiming foul play ? There is no doubt to any of the family what my aunt was up to, my grandfather would never have had any knowledge of those transaction. But, is it a waste of time (and lawyers fees) to try and get anything put back into estate ? Is it criminal ?

    My father has been going back and forth since Feb 17 via lawyers, but statements and true extent of this has only become apparent recently.

    Any advice, opinions, comments welcome. In Scotland if it makes any difference.

    Thanks
    Alistair
    Last edited by Alistair31; 11-05-2018 at 7:24 PM.
Page 1
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 11th May 18, 7:26 PM
    • 1,030 Posts
    • 1,246 Thanks
    Flugelhorn
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 7:26 PM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 7:26 PM
    Presume the difficult bit will be that if they were genuinely joint accounts then either person could take any amount of money out of them
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 11th May 18, 7:30 PM
    • 5,622 Posts
    • 6,384 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 7:30 PM
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 7:30 PM
    If the money came out of joint accounts then their is nothing your father can do about it. Perhaps your Aunt and GF were just trying to make sure your father could not get round his wishes that he should receive nothing.

    Your father is only entitled to a portion of your GFs movable estate, so if there is property involved he has no claim on that.
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 11th May 18, 7:33 PM
    • 2,483 Posts
    • 2,443 Thanks
    Alter ego
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 7:33 PM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 7:33 PM
    Sorry but they were not his accounts if they were made joint.
    Loose means not tight, Lose means something is lost, simples no?
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • Alistair31
    • By Alistair31 11th May 18, 7:38 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    Alistair31
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 7:38 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 7:38 PM
    His home was gifted to my father and his sister many moons ago so there is no problem there. Although, it did take 10 months to get it on the market and is still unsold. Eventually though my father will get 50%.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 11th May 18, 7:41 PM
    • 1,002 Posts
    • 788 Thanks
    Dox
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 7:41 PM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 7:41 PM
    Being in Scotland certainly does make a difference - you can't completely disinherit your children (hence your father being able to claim his 'legal rights'). Disinherited children have a claim to a portion of their parent's estate; the entitlement is dependent on how many siblings there are. Each child is entitled to an equal share of one-third of the moveable property of the estate.

    Given the will sought to cut your dad out, it would be hard to argue that your aunt's 'plundering' of the joint account constituted foul play, never mind anything worse. Hurtful as it must be, that would be your grandfather's most effective route to ensuring that your dad inherits as little as possible.
    • Alistair31
    • By Alistair31 11th May 18, 7:58 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    Alistair31
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 7:58 PM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 7:58 PM
    Being in Scotland certainly does make a difference - you can't completely disinherit your children (hence your father being able to claim his 'legal rights'). Disinherited children have a claim to a portion of their parent's estate; the entitlement is dependent on how many siblings there are. Each child is entitled to an equal share of one-third of the moveable property of the estate.
    Originally posted by Dox
    Only my father and his sister. No other siblings. If the estate amounted to 80k moveable (arbitrary) what would my father be due ?
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 11th May 18, 8:06 PM
    • 5,622 Posts
    • 6,384 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 8:06 PM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 8:06 PM
    Only my father and his sister. No other siblings. If the estate amounted to 80k moveable (arbitrary) what would my father be due ?
    Originally posted by Alistair31
    Nothing for anything in joint accounts, 50% of everything else. Your father may also have a Capital Gains Tax liability on the sale of the house, as will your aunt unless she lived with her father.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 11th May 18, 9:00 PM
    • 4,685 Posts
    • 3,912 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 9:00 PM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 9:00 PM
    Hello all,

    Firstly apologies if this is in wrong place or is a bit long, I!!!8217;ll try to keep it to minimum.

    My grandfather died in Feb 17, his will stated everything to my aunt and nothing to my father. Totally cut out despite having a copy of previous will that stated 50/50. Hey ho.
    My dad is in the process of claiming his legal rights, which I believe is a half of a half of the value of the estate. However! It has transpired that in 2011 (when the most recent will was written) my aunt was also made joint account holder on my grandfathers accounts. (He was house bound from around 2010 until death in 2017). There was no survivor nomination on these accounts and hence the remaining balance forms part of the estate.

    The interesting bit, she (my aunt) plundered his accounts to the tune of 120,000 ! 70k from ATM withdrawalls, 200 at a time mostly. The other 50k in cheques, no details yet who they were written to or signed by but my grandfather never spent a penny until 2011 and was very very very tight;. All his bills were paid from his own accounts and carers provided meals etc for several years before his death.

    My question is, is there any possibility of claiming foul play ? There is no doubt to any of the family what my aunt was up to, my grandfather would never have had any knowledge of those transaction. But, is it a waste of time (and lawyers fees) to try and get anything put back into estate ? Is it criminal ?

    My father has been going back and forth since Feb 17 via lawyers, but statements and true extent of this has only become apparent recently.

    Any advice, opinions, comments welcome. In Scotland if it makes any difference.

    Thanks
    Alistair
    Originally posted by Alistair31
    Is this Scotland? I ask because of what you say your rather is trying to claim. The other thing is that will be a long and difficult path to PROVE the alleged thefts.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 11th May 18, 9:02 PM
    • 1,002 Posts
    • 788 Thanks
    Dox
    One-third of 80K (26.6K), divided by 2 (father and his sister) = 13.3K
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 12th May 18, 1:10 AM
    • 541 Posts
    • 404 Thanks
    Marcon
    Is this Scotland? I ask because of what you say your rather is trying to claim. The other thing is that will be a long and difficult path to PROVE the alleged thefts.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    It's Scotland - see OP's original post: ' In Scotland if it makes any difference.'
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