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  • FIRST POST
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 11th May 18, 5:15 PM
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    lisyloo
    Joint assets/savings
    • #1
    • 11th May 18, 5:15 PM
    Joint assets/savings 11th May 18 at 5:15 PM
    FIL died in April. MIL is in a nursing home, so their marital property is empty (and she will need to start paying fees after I believe a 12-week disregard),

    The property is held as joint tenants.
    They also have joint savings/current accounts.

    Am I correct in thinking I don't need to do anything with these as she automatically gets them via survivorship.

    There is a small life insurance policy and I am seeking deputyship to claim this She is his executor and has lost capacity. His will says she gets everything.

    There is nothing else of any significance (the usual worn clothing, sheets, cupboard of food).
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 11th May 18, 5:46 PM
    • 4,512 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 5:46 PM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 5:46 PM
    FIL died in April. MIL is in a nursing home, so their marital property is empty (and she will need to start paying fees after I believe a 12-week disregard),

    The property is held as joint tenants.
    They also have joint savings/current accounts.

    Am I correct in thinking I don't need to do anything with these as she automatically gets them via survivorship.

    There is a small life insurance policy and I am seeking deputyship to claim this She is his executor and has lost capacity. His will says she gets everything.

    There is nothing else of any significance (the usual worn clothing, sheets, cupboard of food).
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Is there a will? Have you checked that the house is full insured? Who is the executor? Either probate, if there is a will, or Letters of Administration will probably be needed. Are there any bank accounts? Have the banks been notified of the death? Please read the !!!8220;stickies!!!8221; athe start of the forum.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 11th May 18, 5:52 PM
    • 938 Posts
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    Dox
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 5:52 PM
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 5:52 PM
    The property passes to her automatically as she and her late husband were joint tenants.

    Most joint bank accounts are held on the same principle.

    You need to let the banks know what is going on and provide a copy of the death certificate. Doing so may also ease your path into deputyship in terms of dealing with the in future. They may also ask for a copy of the will, confirming she gets everything as you have said in your post.

    You need to complete form DJB https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deceased-joint-proprietor-djp and send this to the Land Registry with a copy of the death certificate.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 11th May 18, 5:54 PM
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    Dox
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 5:54 PM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 5:54 PM
    Is there a will? Have you checked that the house is full insured? Who is the executor? Either probate, if there is a will, or Letters of Administration will probably be needed. Are there any bank accounts? Have the banks been notified of the death? Please read the !!!8220;stickies!!!8221; athe start of the forum.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    OP has said there's a will and that the wife is the executor - also that there are bank/savings accounts.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 11th May 18, 5:58 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 5:58 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 5:58 PM
    I missed that. Does the OP mean POA? Why would it be needed to claim the policy?
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 11-05-2018 at 6:02 PM.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 11th May 18, 11:49 PM
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    lisyloo
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 11:49 PM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 11:49 PM
    I missed that. Does the OP mean POA? Why would it be needed to claim the policy?
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    MIL is executor of the will. She has lost mental capacity (dimensia).
    She is therefore not capable of agreeing to POA, so its now too late for that and no the life insurance company will not just handover the money (quite right).
    In this situation you have to apply to the court of protection for deputyship (family have agreed I should do this).
    It;s expensive and takes time but is meant to protect her.

    The life insurance is small at 1866. Thats an odd amount so I;m thinking it might have been for funeral costs when they took it out 20 years ago (would now be insufficient but thas all that makes any sense).
    The life insurance will not just pay out to anyone so we need deputyship from the court of protection.
    That would be a pain if it were just for that but we need it to sell the flat anyway.

    I don;t believe probate is require as joint property passes automatically outside the will and I thought banks accounts were the same, so there is actually very little in his estate. I just wanted to check, so thanks for that.
    Last edited by lisyloo; 11-05-2018 at 11:56 PM.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 12th May 18, 7:22 AM
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    lisyloo
    • #7
    • 12th May 18, 7:22 AM
    • #7
    • 12th May 18, 7:22 AM
    You need to let the banks know what is going on and provide a copy of the death certificate.
    Can anyone talk me throughout what happens here I.e. will they need MIL to do anything? My concern is that bills still need to be paid (mainly care fees, ground rent, service charge) and they are mainly automatic I.e. DD.
    MIL cannot do anything and I mean stand up, get in a car, hold a pen etc. and is not capable of understanding or managing banking anyway, so I don;t want to get in a position where accounts are frozen. Deputyship May take 6 months and I havent even applied yet (waiting for the GPS evidence).

    All the money (there isnt massive amount) is being used correctly I.e. it uncontentious that she has to pay care fees, service charges, contents insurance and ground rent as shes liable for all these bills.


    You need to complete form DJB https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deceased-joint-proprietor-djp and send this to the Land Registry with a copy of the death certificate.
    Is this strictly necessary if flat is being sold soon (only held up by the deputyship application). His name will come off when it;s sold, or will it make things (selling) more difficult.
    Last edited by lisyloo; 12-05-2018 at 7:24 AM.
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 12th May 18, 8:49 AM
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    da_rule
    • #8
    • 12th May 18, 8:49 AM
    • #8
    • 12th May 18, 8:49 AM
    Form DJP isn!!!8217;t necessary, you can just provide a copy of the death certificate to the buyer and they will submit it along with the completed transfer deed when they register their purchase.

    It does however help to protect from fraud by keeping the Land Registry updated.
    • buildersdaughter
    • By buildersdaughter 12th May 18, 2:28 PM
    • 221 Posts
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    buildersdaughter
    • #9
    • 12th May 18, 2:28 PM
    • #9
    • 12th May 18, 2:28 PM
    There are better qualified people on here to talk you through the formal steps - and you might like to consider looking on gov.uk and Age UK for advice.
    But for now, I would informally let the nursing home and the maintenance company know the situation. Ask for some leeway whilst you deal with this - they are used to it. Definitely let the flat insurers know, as you may otherwise be violating some terms. When i did this, they were very helpful.The banks' bereavement department can be helpful as well.
    Good luck - it is heartbreaking to have to do this.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 13th May 18, 8:49 AM
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    lisyloo
    As far as I can see they will just take his name off and not stop any DD!!!8217;s so any automatic payments set up (standing orders/direct debits) should be fine as should state pension going in. So pretty much everything carries on as normal.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th May 18, 10:58 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    As far as I can see they will just take his name off and not stop any DD!!!8217;s so any automatic payments set up (standing orders/direct debits) should be fine as should state pension going in. So pretty much everything carries on as normal.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Droadly speaking yes but banks vary on the way they do it some being more pedantic than others. The OPneeds to checkwhat special terms the insurers impose assuming the house in unoccupied such as regular checks heating being on low during cold weather.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 14th May 18, 7:12 AM
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    lisyloo
    It!!!8217;s a flat in a block which changes the risks a bit I.e. chance of anything freezing is minimal but chance of flooding someone below is higher than a house.
    Currently we are visiting regularly (most weekends) as we have been clearing it.
    • I Love comps
    • By I Love comps 14th May 18, 7:53 AM
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    I Love comps
    Hello lisyloo

    I have to apply for Deputyship for my mother, who is now in a care home , as she has Dementia.

    Steps you should take ( From my experience);

    1. Get a Doctor at your MILs nursing home to write a letter saying that your MIL has lost her capacity, a form will have to be signed by a medical person later on (or agree to sign form when getting deputyship)

    2.Deputyship can take anything up to 6 months ( I used a solicitor and so this was quicker)

    3. Empty properties will more than likely mean more insurance payments needed. Also it does not the mean the present insurer of the flat will want to continue insuring it. - Contact to check this.

    4. If there is going to be difficulty in being able to pay any bills. Contact each company individually , and explain the circumstances.

    5.Care/Nursing Home Fees. If these cannot be paid contact your mils council where the property comes under and explain situation.

    6. Gaining Deputyship is expensive, but yes it will protect your mil.


    Hope you get everything sorted soon and if you need to pm me, please do so.
    I'm a Board Guide on all of the Shopping Boards. "I am a volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly.
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    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 14th May 18, 8:55 AM
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    lisyloo
    Thanks for your kind offer.
    MIL's fees are currently paid for my LA (FIL was living in the flat so it was disregarded).
    I have contacted LA a few times but they have not responded. I believe she's entitled to a 12-week property disregard and I have told them her state pension has increased.
    The LA will have to continue to pay the fees until the flat is sold and she'll have to refund later. There is no other option. We are not holding anything up but as you say the deputyship takes time.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 14th May 18, 9:31 AM
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    Mojisola
    MIL's fees are currently paid for my LA (FIL was living in the flat so it was disregarded).

    I have contacted LA a few times but they have not responded. I believe she's entitled to a 12-week property disregard and I have told them her state pension has increased.

    The LA will have to continue to pay the fees until the flat is sold and she'll have to refund later.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    The LA will need to set up a 'deferred payment scheme' for this to happen.

    I had POA for Dad so I was able to sign all the paperwork. I'm not sure what will happen in your situation.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 14th May 18, 4:37 PM
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    lisyloo
    The LA will need to set up a 'deferred payment scheme' for this to happen.

    I had POA for Dad so I was able to sign all the paperwork. I'm not sure what will happen in your situation.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    Yes they will have to. There is no option but to wait until the asset is liquidised.

    I think I've done as much as I can by informing them of all the change in circumstance/finances and also sorting out the flat contents, so we are doing everything we can.

    Nursing home are passing forms to GP tomorrow when he does his regular visit.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th May 18, 7:04 PM
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    AnotherJoe
    OP, be very very VERY careful that the council do not attempt to get you to accept responsibilty for your MILs financial position with them by having you sign documents that end up with you being liable. This is what they tried with me a few years back.

    I'm not saying they will, I'm just saying, be careful. What they wanted me to sign was a document where effectively I agreed I was liable to pay my fathers care home fees, rather than just agreeing I was looking after his affairs.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 14th May 18, 9:09 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    I love the idea of putting the house in the blender!!! I think you meant liquidated. You have made my day.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 14th May 18, 9:20 PM
    • 29,807 Posts
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    Mojisola
    OP, be very very VERY careful that the council do not attempt to get you to accept responsibilty for your MILs financial position with them by having you sign documents that end up with you being liable. This is what they tried with me a few years back.

    I'm not saying they will, I'm just saying, be careful. What they wanted me to sign was a document where effectively I agreed I was liable to pay my fathers care home fees, rather than just agreeing I was looking after his affairs.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    And me!

    You do need to read up in advance and keep your wits about you in meetings.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 14th May 18, 9:44 PM
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    lisyloo
    Thanks for the warning. I will read whatever they send carefully.

    I will co-operate with whatever information they want (haven;t hear a peep out of them yet) but Im not taking time off work and travelling across the country for meetings when the facts are extremely simple I.e. theres a property and theres no money.
    This must surely be a common scenario.
    Last edited by lisyloo; 14-05-2018 at 9:46 PM.
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