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  • FIRST POST
    • Earnshaw24
    • By Earnshaw24 11th May 18, 11:44 AM
    • 6Posts
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    Earnshaw24
    Recorded Letter to Landlord - Then Visiting Landlord?
    • #1
    • 11th May 18, 11:44 AM
    Recorded Letter to Landlord - Then Visiting Landlord? 11th May 18 at 11:44 AM
    Hi all,

    I hope you can help,

    I have had an issue with a broken washing machine, which after the estate agent sent out a repairman - he confirmed it was over 20yrs old, couldn't be repaired and required a replacement.

    Consequently, the estate agent have acted as the intermediary between me and the landlord and passed on the news but they have not heard anything back for over 9 weeks and because they apparently can't act without landlord's consent, the washing machine has remained broken.

    My plan at the moment is to send a recorded letter to the landlord directly just so I can confirm he's signed for it and read the letter. Then if there is no response am I within my right to actually visit the landlord's address and ask for a response?

    It would be good to know what you think the next steps should be and at what point any court action should take place,

    Thanks all!

    Gareth
Page 1
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 11th May 18, 11:50 AM
    • 10,512 Posts
    • 13,677 Thanks
    hazyjo
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 11:50 AM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 11:50 AM
    What does your contract say re repairing/replacing appliances?
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin(!); shoes
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 11th May 18, 11:52 AM
    • 12,110 Posts
    • 17,043 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 11:52 AM
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 11:52 AM
    Hi all,

    I hope you can help,

    I have had an issue with a broken washing machine, which after the estate agent sent out a repairman - he confirmed it was over 20yrs old, couldn't be repaired and required a replacement.

    Consequently, the estate agent have acted as the intermediary between me and the landlord and passed on the news but they have not heard anything back for over 9 weeks and because they apparently can't act without landlord's consent, the washing machine has remained broken.

    My plan at the moment is to send a recorded letter to the landlord directly just so I can confirm he's signed for it and read the letter. Then if there is no response am I within my right to actually visit the landlord's address and ask for a response?

    It would be good to know what you think the next steps should be and at what point any court action should take place,

    Thanks all!

    Gareth
    Originally posted by Earnshaw24
    First thing's first. Is your landlord actually required to repair or replace the washing machine? Does your tenancy agreement state that your landlord is responsible for the washing machine? Is it an integrated appliance?

    Assuming this is in England or Wales you might be surprised at how few repairing obligations the landlord actually has.

    See G_M's guide to Repairing Obligations: the law, common misconceptions, reporting/enforcing, retaliatory eviction & the new tenant protection (2015)
    • Earnshaw24
    • By Earnshaw24 11th May 18, 12:01 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Earnshaw24
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 12:01 PM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 12:01 PM
    Thanks for your reply,

    I can confirm the landlord is responsible in the agreement for appliances including the washing machine, this has also been confirmed by estate agent.
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 11th May 18, 12:04 PM
    • 180 Posts
    • 338 Thanks
    bigisi
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 12:04 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 12:04 PM
    Thanks for your reply,

    I can confirm the landlord is responsible in the agreement for appliances including the washing machine, this has also been confirmed by estate agent.
    Originally posted by Earnshaw24
    Why are you trusting anything to the estate agent? The only thing that matters is your contract. Get it out. Read it. What does it state about the landlord's responsibilities.

    I can imagine turning up on the LL's doorstep is going to find you on the receiving end of a S.21 pretty soon after.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 11th May 18, 12:07 PM
    • 12,110 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 12:07 PM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 12:07 PM
    There's certainty no harm in sending a letter to your landlord, quoting the part of the tenancy agreement that makes him responsible for repairing or replacing the washing machine, and asking for an update on when this will happen. You could even put forward the suggestion of purchasing a new machine yourself (within a certain budget) and deducting the money from your next rent payment however don't do this until you have written confirmation from your landlord that it's ok or you will end up in arrears.

    Turning up to your landlord's house will achieve nothing other than making you look like a creepy weirdo.
    • Earnshaw24
    • By Earnshaw24 11th May 18, 12:09 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Earnshaw24
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 12:09 PM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 12:09 PM
    "Subject to the Landlord's obligations in Clause 4, to ensure all electrical, gas and other appliances and apparatus including any television set or radio are kept in good working order and to pay for the repair or replacement which may be required during the Tenancy Agreement (apart from wear and tear) due to the negligence or ill treatment of the tenant, his family visitors or his contractors."

    "Landlord - To take reasonable steps to ensure that the Landlord's domestic gas and electrical appliances and other similar mechanical appliances in the Property for which he is responsible are safe, in proper working order, and in repair both a the commencement of and during the Tenancy Agreement."

    The washing machine worked three times in the first month of moving in before it stopped working.
    Last edited by Earnshaw24; 11-05-2018 at 12:12 PM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 11th May 18, 1:49 PM
    • 12,110 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 1:49 PM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 1:49 PM
    "Subject to the Landlord's obligations in Clause 4, to ensure all electrical, gas and other appliances and apparatus including any television set or radio are kept in good working order and to pay for the repair or replacement which may be required during the Tenancy Agreement (apart from wear and tear) due to the negligence or ill treatment of the tenant, his family visitors or his contractors."

    "Landlord - To take reasonable steps to ensure that the Landlord's domestic gas and electrical appliances and other similar mechanical appliances in the Property for which he is responsible are safe, in proper working order, and in repair both a the commencement of and during the Tenancy Agreement."

    The washing machine worked three times in the first month of moving in before it stopped working.
    Originally posted by Earnshaw24
    Is it just me or does that first quoted clause make no sense? To me it reads as if the landlord will only repair or replace an appliance if the tenant (or the tenant's visitors and contractors) are negligent or if the tenant, tenant's visitors and contractors have been ill-treated (by whom?) but the appliance won't be repaired or replaced if it fails due to wear and tear.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 11th May 18, 1:58 PM
    • 9,527 Posts
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    theartfullodger
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 1:58 PM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 1:58 PM
    You would be best to follow Shelter's advice here including using their draft letter: If not sorted you inform landlord you will be involving council.
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/how_to_report_repairs_to_a_private_landlord


    Don't use recorded - he can decline to sign/accept: Better to post with a **free** "Proof of postage".
    • Tyler Durden UK
    • By Tyler Durden UK 11th May 18, 2:00 PM
    • 111 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Tyler Durden UK
    You would be best to follow Shelter's advice here including using their draft letter: If not sorted you inform landlord you will be involving council.
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/how_to_report_repairs_to_a_private_landlord


    Don't use recorded - he can decline to sign/accept: Better to post with a **free** "Proof of postage".
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Sure I've read that if you send this way from 2 different post offices its considered to have been received
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 11th May 18, 2:10 PM
    • 37,218 Posts
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    silvercar
    Is it just me or does that first quoted clause make no sense? To me it reads as if the landlord will only repair or replace an appliance if the tenant (or the tenant's visitors and contractors) are negligent or if the tenant, tenant's visitors and contractors have been ill-treated (by whom?) but the appliance won't be repaired or replaced if it fails due to wear and tear.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    To me it reads that the whole paragraph refers to tenant's obligations other than those that fall under clause 4 or are caused by wear and tear..
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 11th May 18, 2:12 PM
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    Pixie5740
    To me it reads that the whole paragraph refers to tenant's obligations other than those that fall under clause 4 or are caused by wear and tear..
    Originally posted by silvercar
    I see what you mean.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th May 18, 2:40 PM
    • 16,680 Posts
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    FBaby
    I read the first paragraph as standard of responsibilities of the tenant. Why would the tenant be responsible for nothing but wear and tear? It makes no sense.
    • franklee
    • By franklee 11th May 18, 4:07 PM
    • 3,640 Posts
    • 3,890 Thanks
    franklee
    I read the first paragraph as standard of responsibilities of the tenant. Why would the tenant be responsible for nothing but wear and tear? It makes no sense.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    I read it as first paragraph the tenant's obligations which is to repair if the fault is due to negligence or ill treatment of the tenant, his family visitors or his contractors but NOT if due to wear and tear.

    Paragraph 2 the landlord keeps them in working order, and in repair both at the commencement of and during the Tenancy Agreement.

    So basically the landlord repairs unless it's due to the tenant's negligence or ill treatment in which case the tenant repairs.

    So the washing machine over 20 yrs old is likely wear and tear. Earnshaw24 was there any evidence you ill treated it?
    • Earnshaw24
    • By Earnshaw24 11th May 18, 4:09 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    Earnshaw24
    Sorry, I should have made it clear the first paragraph was for the tenant, second is the landlord, my fault!
    • Earnshaw24
    • By Earnshaw24 11th May 18, 4:12 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Earnshaw24

    So the washing machine over 20 yrs old is likely wear and tear. Earnshaw24 was there any evidence you ill treated it?
    Originally posted by franklee
    No evidence of that, washing machine simply stopped turning on after only a few washes.

    Repairman filed a report explaining the technical problems with it and sent to estate agent.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 11th May 18, 4:18 PM
    • 409 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    need an answer
    I would be inclined to write to the LL and request a timeframe for repairs/replacement politely as you have now been without the facility for a considerable time.
    You could point out that they should be in possession of the report completed by the most recent repair visit that indicated that a new machine was the most cost effective way forward given the age of the washing machine in question.

    As Pixie also suggests I support the offer of purchasing a new machine that is like for like or as near new equivalent in order to speed up the process and request that the cost be deducted from the next rental payment due.
    AO do some good machines and can even install and take away the old one,for a small fee,if that appears to be a problem that the LL would rather not deal with.

    Ask for a clear response within a reasonable timeframe,maybe 5 days.

    If it were me I wouldn't visit.
    I am unsure any court action needs to take place and if so would be a waste of time and your resources.Personally I would say rather than seek advice re court action you might be better looking for other accommodation where white goods remain the clear responsibility of the LL.

    At worst the scenario can be fixed by you buying a new machine with no LL contribution and taking it with you when you leave.
    Yoy may need to be mindful that the old one might need to be retained as per the inventory but you would need to discuss this with the LL and get any decision in writing.
    Last edited by need an answer; 11-05-2018 at 4:30 PM.
    in S 28 T 20 F 42
    out S 36 T 24 F 32
    2017 -32
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 11th May 18, 5:49 PM
    • 4,363 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    I read this that the first paragraph are the obligations of the tenant. The second paragraph is the one for the landlord and I read that as things that supply electricity and gas so something like a boiler or imersion heater rather than appliances like washing machines.

    I don't think you are going to be able to prove that the washing machine broke due to wear and tear rather than damage. The simplest thing would be to buy a new one, store that one somewhere and put it back when you move and take the new one with you.
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 11th May 18, 6:11 PM
    • 166 Posts
    • 4,538 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    "Landlord - To take reasonable steps to ensure that the Landlord's domestic gas and electrical appliances and other similar mechanical appliances in the Property for which he is responsible are safe, in proper working order, and in repair both a the commencement of and during the Tenancy Agreement."
    Originally posted by Earnshaw24
    This is the key phrase. For what is he responsible? Are you sure there's nothing else in the contract that specifies this?
    The supply of water isn't even mentioned here.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th May 18, 9:51 PM
    • 44,056 Posts
    • 52,178 Thanks
    G_M
    "Landlord - To take reasonable steps to ensure that the Landlord's domestic gas and electrical appliances and other similar mechanical appliances in the Property for which he is responsible are....
    This is the key phrase. For what is he responsible? Are you sure there's nothing else in the contract that specifies this?
    The supply of water isn't even mentioned here.
    Originally posted by Quizzical Squirrel
    Indeed.

    However in contrast to a contract that ignores the entire subject, or a contract that places responsibility firmly on the tenant's shoulders, this seems to suggest the LL will/should repair.


    Dear Mr landlord,

    Further to the report written by xyz company, following their inspection of the washing machine on xx/xx/2018, I am writing to seek a date when the washing machine will be repaired or replaced.

    Could you kindly reply within the next few days giving me either a timescale for replacement or a date when the repair will be under-taken.

    You'll appreciate that I have now been without a working washing machine for x weeks, and am thus incurring considerable unplanned for costs at launderettes. Given the length of time that that has passed since I first reported the problem to your agents (xx/xx/2018) I feel some reimbursement of these espences would be in order.

    If it would help you, I should be happy to undertake a replacement myself and claim back the cost via future rent. I attach a quotation for a comparable washing machine. If this would assist you, please confirm in writing that this is the case and that the cost on the quotation is acceptable.

    Yours sincerely,


    Earnshaw
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