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  • FIRST POST
    • Linzie789
    • By Linzie789 11th May 18, 11:36 AM
    • 9Posts
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    Linzie789
    New Owners of my Rented Flat
    • #1
    • 11th May 18, 11:36 AM
    New Owners of my Rented Flat 11th May 18 at 11:36 AM
    I have rented my flat for the past 3 years but it has recently been sold with me still in as the tenant. When the survey was done a couple of months ago, the letting agents told me to say I was a friend of the family if the surveyor asked. He didnít ask but I was not going to lie for them anyway. The sale completed yesterday and I have this morning received a letter for the new owners from their mortgage company. Do you think this means they have obtained a mortgage under false pretences, ie, the mortgage company think they are living here?

    If so, where does this leave me legally? I am due to sign a contract for another yearís tenancy today but feel very uneasy about the new owners.

    Any advice would be much appreciated.
Page 1
    • TonyMMM
    • By TonyMMM 11th May 18, 11:45 AM
    • 2,762 Posts
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    TonyMMM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 11:45 AM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 11:45 AM
    return it as "not at this address"

    Their problem, not yours.
    • mrginge
    • By mrginge 11th May 18, 11:48 AM
    • 4,680 Posts
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    mrginge
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 11:48 AM
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 11:48 AM
    Personally I would ring the mortgage company up and tell them.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 11th May 18, 11:56 AM
    • 9,050 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 11:56 AM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 11:56 AM
    Do you think this means they have obtained a mortgage under false pretences, ie, the mortgage company think they are living here?
    Originally posted by Linzie789
    Probably.

    But if you become awkward about it they might choose not to sign you up for another year's lease. Chances are that they'd have trouble quickly turning it into a BTL mortgage even if they wanted to.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 11th May 18, 12:08 PM
    • 977 Posts
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    need an answer
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 12:08 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 12:08 PM
    There are many reasons why the letter may have come to your address,at this stage don't assume a fraudulent activity,but I would make the owners aware that you wont tolerate their mail being delivered going forward.

    A few years back we bought an additional BTL property and our address was not correctly linked into the new mortgage which actually resulted in a few letters being sent to our tenant in error. We later both received an apology from the company. Administration errors can happen.

    In this instance I would take the letter to the LA and ask them to pass it on to the owner for them to rectify with the provision that any further mail you receive for them will be returned to sender.
    Last edited by need an answer; 11-05-2018 at 12:10 PM.
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    • Linzie789
    • By Linzie789 11th May 18, 12:12 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    Linzie789
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 12:12 PM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 12:12 PM
    Thanks very much for your responses. I can accept that the letter may have been wrongly addressed but the request to lie to the surveyor has made me very suspicious. I have just done a bit more research and if the landlord does not have a BTL mortgage or Consent to Let from their mortgage company, it appears that I would have an unauthorised tenancy. That is quite worrying.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 11th May 18, 12:23 PM
    • 977 Posts
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    need an answer
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 12:23 PM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 12:23 PM
    So you now have 2 choices

    confront the LL with your suspicion and possibly get off on a very wrong footing with them

    or politely hand in the letter with the request that they amend the correspondence details at the earliest opportunity to ensure you are not sent any further correspondence.

    of course you also have the third option of start to look for somewhere else to live as you may not be the correct match of tenant for the new owner going forward.
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    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 11th May 18, 12:53 PM
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    HampshireH
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 12:53 PM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 12:53 PM
    If you want to stay I would get the tenancy signed and then sort this out afterwards.

    Once the tenancy is signed (depending on any break clauses) you at least have some security behind you. If it all goes wrong for whatever reason you can use your tenancy as supporting evidence for any costs etc at a later date to be covered.

    Assuming you will go onto a periodic if you don't sign it and notice could be served (by either)

    No idea if that's the correct advice from a legal point of view
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 11th May 18, 1:04 PM
    • 9,050 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 1:04 PM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 1:04 PM
    it appears that I would have an unauthorised tenancy.
    Originally posted by Linzie789
    It's still a valid tenancy, just one which the lender doesn't know about.

    I would be more concerned about what else your new landlord can't be bothered dealing with properly.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 11th May 18, 2:12 PM
    • 7,170 Posts
    • 7,125 Thanks
    eddddy
    I guess your concern is about the property being repossessed by the lender... and your tenancy not being binding on the lender, because they didn't agree to it. So you get evicted.

    However, Citizens advice say:

    Repossession by your landlord's mortgage lender

    You may have some rights if your tenancy is binding on the landlord's mortgage lender.

    Your tenancy may be binding if any of these things apply to you:
    • the landlord's lender agreed to the tenancy
    • you were living in the property when your landlord's mortgage was granted
    • the landlord's lender has recognised your tenancy in some way, for example, by asking you to pay them rent

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/repossession-by-your-landlord-s-mortgage-lender/#do_you_have_a_right_to_stay
    Looking at point 2 above - you were living in the property when the mortgage was granted, so it sounds like the tenancy might be binding on the lender in your case.
    Last edited by eddddy; 11-05-2018 at 2:15 PM.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 11th May 18, 2:17 PM
    • 38,109 Posts
    • 160,257 Thanks
    silvercar
    If you want to stay I would get the tenancy signed and then sort this out afterwards.

    Once the tenancy is signed (depending on any break clauses) you at least have some security behind you. If it all goes wrong for whatever reason you can use your tenancy as supporting evidence for any costs etc at a later date to be covered.

    Assuming you will go onto a periodic if you don't sign it and notice could be served (by either)

    No idea if that's the correct advice from a legal point of view
    Originally posted by HampshireH
    No need to sign a new tenancy, the original one is valid.

    The mortgage act 2010 Protection of Tenants gives you rights.

    If the new buyer obtained a residential mortgage on the property, then this is fraud, obtaining money by deception, he would be in serious trouble (as opposed to someone letting out their property without telling the lender which would "merely" be a breach of mortgage terms).
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    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 11th May 18, 2:25 PM
    • 5,205 Posts
    • 7,874 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Send the letter back to the mortgage company with a note on the envelope to say that the person doesn't live at your address and let them sort it out.
    • Linzie789
    • By Linzie789 11th May 18, 2:27 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Linzie789
    Thanks to all of you for the advice.
    • Linzie789
    • By Linzie789 16th Jul 18, 3:53 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Linzie789
    Just thought I would update on this situation in view of DavidMCN's comment re what else the landlord wouldnt deal with. The block of flats is run by a management company comprised of 3 of the individual owner/ occupiers. One of them knocked on my door yesterday to tell me that the man underneath me has water leaking into his bathroom and said she had been trying to contact my landlord without success. This was the previous landlord as she didnt know the flat had been sold and was very surprised when I told her this as the new owners have not contacted the management company. She asked me to give her their details as she should legally have them, which i refused to do and said I would ask them to contact her. I have done so but I am not getting any further involved in this - its not my responsibility. After this happened i paid the £3 and accessed the land register for my flat - the new owners are registered at my address. I am quite worried about all of this but have now put in an offer on another rental property and hope to be able to move out soon. Do you think I should report them to their mortgage company and HMRC?
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 16th Jul 18, 4:05 PM
    • 64,919 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    .... She asked me to give her their details as she should legally have them, which i refused to do and said I would ask them to contact her. I have done so but I am not getting any further involved in this - its not my responsibility. ...
    Originally posted by Linzie789
    In my world I'd have handed the information over under the banner of "not my responsibility". They made their bed, let them lie in it.

    You've done the right thing to get out ... you don't know what sort of dodgy n00b you're dealing with.

    I'd report them to everybody/anybody ... once I was out
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 16th Jul 18, 4:25 PM
    • 4,197 Posts
    • 7,506 Thanks
    Smodlet
    So you now have 2 choices

    confront the LL with your suspicion and possibly get off on a very wrong footing with them

    or politely hand in the letter with the request that they amend the correspondence details at the earliest opportunity to ensure you are not sent any further correspondence.

    of course you also have the third option of start to look for somewhere else to live as you may not be the correct match of tenant for the new owner going forward.
    Originally posted by need an answer
    As in one not willing to collude in their fraudulent activities?


    Do you think I should report them to their mortgage company and HMRC?
    Originally posted by Linzie789
    Hell, yes! Let us know how you get on? And good luck to you, Linzie789.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Lysimache
    • By Lysimache 16th Jul 18, 4:35 PM
    • 176 Posts
    • 64 Thanks
    Lysimache
    Let the mortgage company know and drop HMRC a line here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/reporting-tax-evasion


    If there's nothing wrong, the bank and HMRC won't do anything. If there is something dodgy, you're on your way out anyway...
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