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  • FIRST POST
    • rnem170
    • By rnem170 10th May 18, 9:41 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 8Thanks
    rnem170
    ScottishPower not so smart meters
    • #1
    • 10th May 18, 9:41 PM
    ScottishPower not so smart meters 10th May 18 at 9:41 PM
    Just checked my bill and online account and discovered that my last two bills have been estimated. How is that possible if I have smart meters?

    I manually submitted readings and I've gone from 100 in debit to over 300 in debit!.
Page 1
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 11th May 18, 8:44 AM
    • 1,428 Posts
    • 1,192 Thanks
    House Martin
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 8:44 AM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 8:44 AM
    Colder than usual winter is probably the reason you are behind your usual direct debit level.It has nothing to do with what type of meter you have but more to do with how cold its been from November to April.
    My account is in a similar position and now I m in debit of around 100 after the Spring review and will either top up the difference or accept Eons higher dd.
    Central heating boiler will not be going on again until October though and I ll soon catch up.
    If you have Scottish Power smart meters why are you manually submitting readings ?
    Possibly that is why their system has switched to estimates.
    There is no reason why anyone should bombard suppliers with readings more often than once a quarter
    .Monthly readings are totally unnecessary and will not be used anyway to bring up bills.
    On my rounds meter reading I met a few oddballs who were sending readings off, and wasting their time, every week sending readings off to be ignored by their supplier..
    Before the WWW. came into existence all suppliers are happy at 4 reads a year and 4 of the big 6 are happy at twice a year
    Last edited by House Martin; 11-05-2018 at 9:32 AM.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 11th May 18, 8:44 AM
    • 6,557 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 8:44 AM
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 8:44 AM
    Just checked my bill and online account and discovered that my last two bills have been estimated. How is that possible if I have smart meters?

    I manually submitted readings and I've gone from 100 in debit to over 300 in debit!.
    Originally posted by rnem170
    The most likely reason is that your smart meters have lost mobile contact with the supplier. My advice would be to contact them and ask. The next generation of smart meters (SMETS2) will not have this problem as all smart meters will form a wide area net (WAN). If an individual meter loses contact, then your meter data will be passed from one smart meter to the next until a meter is found that has a datalink to the Data Communications Centre.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 11th May 18, 8:56 AM
    • 315 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    MeterMan
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 8:56 AM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 8:56 AM
    Something has obviously gone wrong with the communication of your smart meters, it can happen.

    You have still used the the energy, its not like the smart meter being in communication would have cost you less money.

    I had a brand new shiny smets2 gas and electric meter fitted only a month ago, and already the gas meter has stopped sending its readings off for whatever reason.
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 11th May 18, 9:23 AM
    • 5,177 Posts
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    brewerdave
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 9:23 AM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 9:23 AM

    I had a brand new shiny smets2 gas and electric meter fitted only a month ago, and already the gas meter has stopped sending its readings off for whatever reason.
    Originally posted by MeterMan

    ...so, as many suspect, the uprated tech is not yet fit for purpose either
    • jackandcoke
    • By jackandcoke 11th May 18, 9:34 AM
    • 48 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    jackandcoke
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 9:34 AM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 9:34 AM
    ...so, as many suspect, the uprated tech is not yet fit for purpose either
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    Well considering most suppliers are still in the pilot phase for SMETS2, it doesn't surprise me as that's the whole point of a pilot. To draw out issues before mass deployment.
    Honest? Probably......sort of.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 11th May 18, 9:43 AM
    • 6,557 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 9:43 AM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 9:43 AM
    ...so, as many suspect, the uprated tech is not yet fit for purpose either
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    One of the key improvements with the SMETS2 range of meters is that they communicate across a wide area net (WAN) to get around the need for single meter connectivity with the supplier/data centre. This improvement will not work until there is a mass rollout of SMETS2 meters in any given area.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 11th May 18, 11:21 PM
    • 2,207 Posts
    • 3,170 Thanks
    badmemory
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 11:21 PM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 11:21 PM
    so the uprated tech is NOT YET FIT for purpose - seems to sum up the whole fiasco. I'm sure they will be able to find some new problems to make gen 3 not work properly though!
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 12th May 18, 9:23 AM
    • 6,557 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #9
    • 12th May 18, 9:23 AM
    • #9
    • 12th May 18, 9:23 AM
    so the uprated tech is NOT YET FIT for purpose - seems to sum up the whole fiasco. I'm sure they will be able to find some new problems to make gen 3 not work properly though!
    Originally posted by badmemory
    I am not sure that I understand the point that you are making. The primary reason for the loss of connectivity is down to the choice of mobile carrier. Unlike SMETS1 meters which are supplier/mobile carrier dependent, SMETS2 meters do not need direct meter to data centre contact. Once deployed, the meters will establish a wide area network - a mesh if you like - so if any individual meter loses direct contact, the data is passed on from meter to meter until contact is established with The Data Communications Company. For this to work, SMETS2 meters need to be rolled out in numbers which has yet to happen.

    There are other major flaws with the programme but I am not sure that this is one of them.
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 12th May 18, 9:27 AM
    • 5,177 Posts
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    brewerdave
    One of the key improvements with the SMETS2 range of meters is that they communicate across a wide area net (WAN) to get around the need for single meter connectivity with the supplier/data centre. This improvement will not work until there is a mass rollout of SMETS2 meters in any given area.
    Originally posted by Hengus



    ...but @ Hengus, the problem experienced by MeterMan appears to be that the gas meter is not communicating internally with the leccy meter as that then forwards the info. via WAN to the supplier.
    Wonder if those being given SMETS2 compliant meters are being warned that initially they may struggle to communicate with the supplier ? I'll bet they aren't
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 12th May 18, 9:31 AM
    • 6,557 Posts
    • 4,207 Thanks
    Hengus
    ...but @ Hengus, the problem experienced by MeterMan appears to be that the gas meter is not communicating internally with the leccy meter as that then forwards the info. via WAN to the supplier.
    Wonder if those being given SMETS2 compliant meters are being warned that initially they may struggle to communicate with the supplier ? I'll bet they aren't
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    Fair enough, I hadn't latched on to that particular point. As others have said, this is why pilot trials are needed.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 12th May 18, 1:19 PM
    • 26,722 Posts
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    VfM4meplse
    Fair enough, I hadn't latched on to that particular point. As others have said, this is why pilot trials are needed.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Scottish Power are now rolling out the second generation meters en-masse in my area. I'm happy to go with this beccause there's safety in numbers....surely it must have been tested on a critical mass before they do this, and they wouldn't want to p off a huge number of customers?

    Eta: am I being naive in thinking thst Scottish Power would have run updates on the existing models not yet installed having had feedback on current problems with already-installed models?
    Last edited by VfM4meplse; 12-05-2018 at 1:31 PM.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 12th May 18, 1:37 PM
    • 6,557 Posts
    • 4,207 Thanks
    Hengus
    Scottish Power are now rolling out the second generation meters en-masse in my area. I'm happy to go with this beccause there's safety in numbers....surely it must have been tested on a critical mass before they do this, and they wouldn't want to p off a huge number of customers?

    Eta: am I being naive in thinking thst Scottish Power would have run updates on the existing models not yet installed having had feedback on current problems with already-installed models?
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    Before being taken in by the perceived benefits of smart meters, it is worth giving a thought to some of the inherent risks of having meters with built in remote disconnection:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/smart-grids-and-meters-raise-hacking-risks/

    I will stick with dumb meters for as long as possible. I provided Octopus Energy with a meter reading this morning and got a statement 20 minutes later. I am not sure what more a smart meter could do although I accept that it may have benefits for some people who cannot or do not wish to access their meters.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 12th May 18, 1:57 PM
    • 26,722 Posts
    • 56,870 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    The plot thickens. From actively soliciting installations of smart meters, that option has changed (literally over the last 2 days!). I am now on the list for when it goes ahead.

    I surmise there has been some poor feedback and that SP is holding off new installations whilst it is gets it sorted.
    Before being taken in by the perceived benefits of smart meters, it is worth giving a thought to some of the inherent risks of having meters with built in remote disconnection:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/smart-grids-and-meters-raise-hacking-risks/

    I will stick with dumb meters for as long as possible. I provided Octopus Energy with a meter reading this morning and got a statement 20 minutes later. I am not sure what more a smart meter could do although I accept that it may have benefits for some people who cannot or do not wish to access their meters.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    For me its a question of getting it installed before the next cold spell. My gas meter whilst easily accessible is outside, I just don't want to go out in the cold and dark when I could be monitoring energy usage tightly from the comfort of inside. A quick glance now and then will determine my energy consumption and I can then associate it with the appliances in use at the time. Whether it actually happens before the clocks go back is anyone's guess.

    Last year winter was ridiculously cold but as my home is new to me, I have no reason to believe it won't be just as cold inside this year. The temperature difference between the north and south of the house becomes even more obvious in warm weather
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 12th May 18, 2:45 PM
    • 6,557 Posts
    • 4,207 Thanks
    Hengus
    The plot thickens. From actively soliciting installations of smart meters, that option has changed (literally over the last 2 days!). I am now on the list for when it goes ahead.

    I surmise there has been some poor feedback and that SP is holding off new installations whilst it is gets it sorted.For me its a question of getting it installed before the next cold spell. My gas meter whilst easily accessible is outside, I just don't want to go out in the cold and dark when I could be monitoring energy usage tightly from the comfort of inside. A quick glance now and then will determine my energy consumption and I can then associate it with the appliances in use at the time. Whether it actually happens before the clocks go back is anyone's guess.

    Last year winter was ridiculously cold but as my home is new to me, I have no reason to believe it won't be just as cold inside this year. The temperature difference between the north and south of the house becomes even more obvious in warm weather
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    I have a 30 optical spot gas meter reader that provides me with usage information in cubic metres of gas every 15 minutes. Usage appears on my phone in tabular or graphical form. It gives me a meter reading whenever I need it. Monitoring usage in this way has provided me with definitive information that my heating system uses less gas by leaving the heating on a set temperature throughout the day. This is true monitoring at a fraction of the cost of a smart meter with none of the cyber risks.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 13th May 18, 12:40 PM
    • 315 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    MeterMan
    Im not particularly fussed that my gas meter has stopped communicating, there are currently on an internal trial, these issues will be ironed out before mass rollout.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 13th May 18, 4:35 PM
    • 1,733 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    sevenhills
    The plot thickens. From actively soliciting installations of smart meters, that option has changed (literally over the last 2 days!). I am now on the list for when it goes ahead.
    I surmise there has been some poor feedback and that SP is holding off new installations whilst it is gets it sorted.
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    I have had my Scottish Power smart meters for around a year. The smart electricity meter does not work, I believe this is in relation to my solar panels.
    I did tell them at the time, I will have to chase them up, to see if their is a solution. I just submit monthly readings online.

    I have had an update from SP today, they tell me my smart meter will now work, the timings of the readings was not set, SP will now get a reading from the electricity used daily.
    Last edited by sevenhills; 14-05-2018 at 6:23 PM.

  • Scottish Power
    Just checked my bill and online account and discovered that my last two bills have been estimated. How is that possible if I have smart meters?

    I manually submitted readings and I've gone from 100 in debit to over 300 in debit!.
    Originally posted by rnem170
    Hi mem170

    If you would like me to look further into the issue you have been having with the smart meter then you can email me your details to the email address below.

    In regards to estimated reads from smart meters then this would come down to how often you have given us permission to be sent a read from your smart meter. For example - if your meter only sends us a read say once per month and that is sent on the 1st of every month but we have tried to bill your account to the 20th of the month when your bill may possibly be due then we would need to estimate that reading as we have not got one for that day. That said it should be as accurate as can possibly be if all is working with your meter and we are receiving reads regularly.

    If you need any further advise you can email us at Social@scottishpower.com with the following information-
    your MSE handle in the subject heading
    your full address
    your name and telephone number
    and some details of the issues you have encountered

    Kind Regards
    Danielle
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Scottish Power. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • harrys66
    • By harrys66 22nd May 18, 8:13 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    harrys66
    I have a 30 optical spot gas meter reader that provides me with usage information in cubic metres of gas every 15 minutes. Usage appears on my phone in tabular or graphical form. It gives me a meter reading whenever I need it. Monitoring usage in this way has provided me with definitive information that my heating system uses less gas by leaving the heating on a set temperature throughout the day. This is true monitoring at a fraction of the cost of a smart meter with none of the cyber risks.
    Originally posted by Hengus

    Hi, any chance of a link to the optical reader please? Can the same be used for the electricity meter? thanks
    Last edited by harrys66; 22-05-2018 at 9:19 AM.
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 22nd May 18, 12:22 PM
    • 5,545 Posts
    • 32,765 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    I have had no end of problems with SP since getting dumb meters fitted and changing to their April Super saver!
    Cardiac Arrest - Electrical - Patient unconscious! Heart Attack - Plumbing - Patient conscious!
    Defibrillators Cannot Cure a Heart Attack!
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