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  • FIRST POST
    • Susan S
    • By Susan S 10th May 18, 5:57 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Susan S
    How do I claim back a mis-sold SIP
    • #1
    • 10th May 18, 5:57 PM
    How do I claim back a mis-sold SIP 10th May 18 at 5:57 PM
    I worked for a local authority paying superannuation. I was persuaded by a financial adviser to move my pension to a private provider, which I stupidly did. The company I moved to then went out of business with the meagre pot they offered being transferred to another pension provider. I now have very little in my pot rather than what I could have had if I had not moved it in the first place. Can I re-claim and if so how?
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th May 18, 6:04 PM
    • 94,559 Posts
    • 62,530 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 10th May 18, 6:04 PM
    • #2
    • 10th May 18, 6:04 PM
    I was persuaded by a financial adviser to move my pension to a private provider, which I stupidly did.
    Why was that stupid? This forum is dominated by people wanting to do what you call stupid.

    Can I re-claim and if so how?
    We need more detail. There is nothing wrong with transferring when it is suitable. There is when it is not. Give us more info on what went wrong. Then we can be more helpful.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • whitem
    • By whitem 10th May 18, 8:09 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    whitem
    • #3
    • 10th May 18, 8:09 PM
    • #3
    • 10th May 18, 8:09 PM
    I keep hearing ad's about reclaiming for Sip's how do we know if it was the right thing or not?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th May 18, 8:30 PM
    • 94,559 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 8:30 PM
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 8:30 PM
    I keep hearing ad's about reclaiming for Sip's how do we know if it was the right thing or not?
    Originally posted by whitem
    Those adds have been widely condemned.

    SIPPs are actually becoming the main pension product taken out today. Virtually all investment platforms in the UK only have SIPPs available. Standard Life, one of the largest and well known brands in pensions in the UK is stopping providing personal pensions and stakeholder pensions for new business and will only offer SIPPs. Aviva's main pension product is a SIPP. Aegon, the UK's largest platform, offers a SIPP. The largest DIY provider uses a SIPP.

    So, adds saying you may have been missold if you had a SIPP are a bit like an advert saying you may have been missold if you had car insurance.

    SIPPs do have a particular issue when used by unregulated cold calling scammers. The freedom to invest where you like with SIPPs has allowed some people acting on cold calls using [usually] unregulated companies to invest in completely foolish things like biofuels, rain forests, car parks, storage pods and cape verde property.

    The majority of people investing in SIPPs use shares, investment trusts, unit trusts/OEiCS.

    So, its a bit like saying you can claim if you bought a kitchen knife because the knife crime in London has gone up.

    So, the key thing is: did you invest in sensible regulated investments or did you get scammed into going into stupid unregulated and unconventional assets by someone that typically slagged off all the conventional regulated options.
    Last edited by dunstonh; 11-05-2018 at 11:37 AM.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 10th May 18, 9:24 PM
    • 938 Posts
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    Dox
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 9:24 PM
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 9:24 PM
    I worked for a local authority paying superannuation. I was persuaded by a financial adviser to move my pension to a private provider, which I stupidly did. The company I moved to then went out of business with the meagre pot they offered being transferred to another pension provider. I now have very little in my pot rather than what I could have had if I had not moved it in the first place. Can I re-claim and if so how?
    Originally posted by Susan S
    Depends what you were told by the adviser. As someone else has said, more detail needed.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 10th May 18, 9:58 PM
    • 2,282 Posts
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    bostonerimus
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 9:58 PM
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 9:58 PM
    Caveat Emptor
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 10th May 18, 10:03 PM
    • 13,331 Posts
    • 11,319 Thanks
    zagfles
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 10:03 PM
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 10:03 PM
    Who was the provider, and what were the investments in? Was this following a cold call?
    • Susan S
    • By Susan S 11th May 18, 8:17 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Susan S
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 8:17 AM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 8:17 AM
    Thanks for the replies. I was persuaded by a financial adviser 30 years ago to swap my local authority superannuated pension which was index linked into a private pension that was not. I did not understand the implications and they were not explained to me. The provider was Abbey Life, they subsequently sold out to another company and they sold out to another company. Am currently with Standard Life. I have been able to get a few 'extra' pounds via another financial adviser's help in the pot by complaining but my pension payout is still going to be very dire compared to what it would have been had I not moved it in the first place. Any ideas if I have a case for someone to answer?
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th May 18, 8:56 AM
    • 10,629 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 8:56 AM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 8:56 AM
    Impossible to say without exact details of what happened 30 years ago, what your contributions have been since (how for example do they compare to what you'd have paid if in the LA scheme) and what the "few extra pounds" you got covered, that may have been in final settlement for example.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th May 18, 9:52 AM
    • 94,559 Posts
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    dunstonh
    I was persuaded by a financial adviser 30 years ago to swap my local authority superannuated pension which was index linked into a private pension that was not.
    Everyone sold a personal pension between dates in 1988 and 1994 was put under a pension review in the 90s. You were sent a questionnaire asking questions about the sale and the advice. These were chased multiple times and non-responders contacted to get them to be completed. If a review was carried out then you cant complain again. Did you answer the questionnaires and follow up phone calls and letters?

    The provider was Abbey Life, they subsequently sold out to another company and they sold out to another company. Am currently with Standard Life.
    Abbey Life remained Abbey Life until 2016 when they sold to Phoenix. There haven't been multiple sales.

    I have been able to get a few 'extra' pounds via another financial adviser's help in the pot by complaining but my pension payout is still going to be very dire compared to what it would have been had I not moved it in the first place.
    If you complained and got a response on that then your complaint is over. You cant keep complaining on the same thing. If you dont agree with the outcome from the complaint, you get 6 months to go to the FOS. Once the 6 months is up, you are barred from raising that complaint again (unless the firm volunteers to waive that)
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • 3,267 Posts
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    Silvertabby
    As Dunstonh's reply, above.

    In the case of the LGPS mis-selling reviews, once proven, those who were still working in Local Government were given the option of being re-instated in the LGPS with the 'guilty' (for want of a better word) private pension companies shovelling enough money into the LGPS pot to buy back the pensionable service transferred out.

    It was a little more difficult for those who were no longer eligible for LGPS membership. Instead, these people had a sum of money (the 'few extra pounds' you mentioned?) put into their current pension funds, the idea being that the increased funds would help buy an annuity comparable to the LGPS pension they had 'lost'.

    The bulk of these cases were dealt with over 20 years ago, since when the expected annuity returns have dropped considerably. Is this what you are complaining about now? If so, then I'm afraid you can't go back for a second bite of the cherry.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 11-05-2018 at 10:52 AM.
    • Prism
    • By Prism 11th May 18, 11:04 AM
    • 475 Posts
    • 390 Thanks
    Prism
    Have you not been paying into this pot for the last 30 years then? If so, why is it so small. How much was it worth when you transferred it back then?
    • Susan S
    • By Susan S 11th May 18, 11:36 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Susan S
    I don't hold the Abbey Life documentation any longer so can't be exact in the year but I think it was around about 1985 and I continued to pay into it whilst being employed by the local authority for another 4 years or so; I have not paid into it since. I had been employed for 14 years for the LA, was then made redundant and since then have worked on a self employed basis. The swap came just after legislation changed and movements were allowed, whatever year that was. I have never received any questionnaire or phone calls regarding the sale. My husband is self employed and it was his financial adviser who said I should change. Having looked at paperwork I do hold a new financial adviser moved the pension from Abbey Life to Scottish Widows in 2001 the sum then was 17k; it was this adviser who managed to get a 'little extra' being only about 500 I believe because he said it wasn't enough. As at 2017 the value of the pension is 36k
    • uk1
    • By uk1 11th May 18, 1:04 PM
    • 1,032 Posts
    • 652 Thanks
    uk1
    Good Luck Susan .....

    In the days you were advised, it seemed to me that the presumption was very much that if you had suffered a loss the preumption was sthat it was bad advice irrespective of what you understood or were told. It was simply the loss that decided.

    I actually felt that I had made an informed decision with respect to my own move from a private sector DB scheme to a personal scheme but the findings were that I was misadvised which shocked me. In the process of having it moved back the actuaries even miscalculated and said I had suffered no loss, and a less "savvy" customer would have accepted it and moved on. I delved deeper and in the end a recalculation showed that a 130k needed to be added by the IFA insurers to my pot to get it back to my old emplyers scheme. Getting it back into my old employers scheme was "life changing".

    Sometimes it seems to me that when people who do not understand these things and ask for helpthey are sometimes treated a little harshly and abruptly and sometimes it seems to me even as a "blood sport" which is a shame. Don't be disheartened. Good luck.
    • Prism
    • By Prism 11th May 18, 1:04 PM
    • 475 Posts
    • 390 Thanks
    Prism
    I can't comment on if the advice to transfer to a personal pension was good or not. Its impossible to judge that without knowing if the initial transfer value was good and the Abbey Life investments were correct. However to get the best out of a personal pension or SIPP it needs to be looked after. So at the beginning you should have been asked about your risk level which lead to your initial investments in the pension. What we know is that after 16 years it had grown to 17K. From that point onwards, in Scottish Widows it has more than doubled. That works out at about 4.5% per year (probably nearer 6% before fees). This seems about average without knowing what your investments are.

    It was always going to be difficult to accrue a larger figure from the moment you stopped paying into it. Personal pensions really need a continual feed to do well, but as it hasn't been paid into in the last 26 years it was always going to be a small amount. Higher risk investments throughout would have probably helped too.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th May 18, 1:32 PM
    • 3,267 Posts
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    Silvertabby
    The compulsary review only applied to 'mis-sold' pensions taken out between 29 April 1988 and 30 June 1994.

    If you did transfer your LGPS benefits in 1985, then I'm afraid you won't qualify for a review. It may be that the 500 your husband's IFA managed to get for you was outside the compensation scheme, and could just be for a calculation error rather than compensation.

    I hope someone pops up with a suggestion for you, but I really don't think you'll be able to take this any further.
    • Susan S
    • By Susan S 11th May 18, 4:36 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Susan S
    Thanks.
    Thanks for all your comments. You guys certainly seem to know your stuff. I'm going to try to find out exactly when I changed from the local authority scheme to a private provider and keep my fingers crossed that it was 1988 onwards in the hope that this might give me some hope of redress but as I didn't get any questionnaire/telephone calls it looks unlikely.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 11th May 18, 5:45 PM
    • 938 Posts
    • 719 Thanks
    Dox
    Personal pensions weren't around in 1985 - they came into existence in 1988. That was also the year employers lost the right to make membership of an occupational scheme compulsory. SIPPs didn't exist until 1989.

    Based on the above, there is a very high chance that this took place during or after 1988.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 12th May 18, 2:17 PM
    • 3,267 Posts
    • 4,754 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    This is from the Financial Ombudsman's web-site.

    Note the date - in 2003 they were already saying that anyone who had not submitted a claim by the 31 March 2000 cut-off had probably missed the boat, although they didn't rule out anyone giving it a go.

    15 years on, however, I fear that there will be nothing that the OP can do - even if she did transfer her pension after 29 April 1988.


    November 2003
    pension mis-selling complaints made after the end of the personal pension review

    It is getting on for ten years since the regulators ordered firms to review the personal pensions they had sold between 29 April 1988 and 30 June 1994. Where the review found that the firm had mis-sold the policy and that the customer would have been better off staying in - or joining - an occupational pension scheme, then the firm had to make redress. This was intended, as far as possible, to put the customer back in the position they would have been in if the firm had not advised them to take out a personal pension.
    The review started at the end of 1994 and firms were required to include some cases in the review automatically and to start checking them right away. These cases included people in higher priority groups - such as those who had already retired. Firms were required to write to the remainder of the customers who were eligible for the review, explaining that they could ask to have their cases looked at. Customers who wanted to be included in the review had to apply by 31 March 2000.
    Customers who missed this deadline but who believe they have been mis-sold a personal pension are still able to make a complaint to the firm in the normal way, although in some cases time limits may apply.
    The following case studies illustrate some of the issues that can arise with personal pension complaints made after the end of the pension review.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 14-05-2018 at 12:38 PM.
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