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  • FIRST POST
    • ClaireMC
    • By ClaireMC 10th May 18, 4:14 PM
    • 25Posts
    • 40Thanks
    ClaireMC
    Remortgage valuation eyewateringly low!!
    • #1
    • 10th May 18, 4:14 PM
    Remortgage valuation eyewateringly low!! 10th May 18 at 4:14 PM
    Hi

    Looking for some advice based on experience. Just looking to remortgage my house, was going to sell it but as the market is sluggish and rather unpredictable have decided not to.

    I know Estate Agents over value to get business but I was quoted an average of 725K (700-750 from 5 EAs)- more realistically I would think it would go for 675-700K. However the Santander valuation has just come in at 575K!!! A house a few doors down which is 50% smaller than my house has gone for 605K just recently and another similar to that but a bit smaller for 550K. Our row of houses is very unusual in the area and they sell rarely so it is hard to look at past sales but I think the surveyor has not been able to compare them properly.

    As you can imagine shocked and a bit upset. Do Santander accept appeals and is it worth appealing - what I have seen (though very old) seems to indicate that it is not worth appealing?

    Thanks for any insight that you can offer.

    Claire
Page 1
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 10th May 18, 4:33 PM
    • 2,669 Posts
    • 3,814 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    • #2
    • 10th May 18, 4:33 PM
    • #2
    • 10th May 18, 4:33 PM
    Don't forget that any house purchase is made up of deposit + mortgage, whereas you're only looking at the 'mortgage' part of that amount, so it'll naturally be less than the 725k total which the EAs are touting.

    However, given you're now also essentially going through the same process as your would-be buyers were when you were selling, you're probably now finding out why the market is "sluggish and rather unpredictable"...
    • Gwendo40
    • By Gwendo40 10th May 18, 5:07 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    Gwendo40
    • #3
    • 10th May 18, 5:07 PM
    • #3
    • 10th May 18, 5:07 PM
    ''Homeowner Thinks Home is Worth a Lot More Than it Actually is Shocker.''
    • ClaireMC
    • By ClaireMC 10th May 18, 5:18 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    ClaireMC
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 5:18 PM
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 5:18 PM
    ''Homeowner Thinks Home is Worth a Lot More Than it Actually is Shocker.''
    Originally posted by Gwendo40
    I'm looking for insight and guidance not trolling! There is no need for your comment is there? I never understand why people feel the need to comment like this. Does it make you feel better? I am sure that you would be perfectly nice to my face but there is something about been invisible behind a computer that brings out the viciousness in some people!

    I KNOW valuations v EA are very different but when a house smaller then mine - MUCH smaller, has just sold for far more than my valuation, then there is a discrepancy here! In this post I was asking regarding the value of appealing from people on here who may be expert or in a similar situation.
    Last edited by ClaireMC; 10-05-2018 at 5:32 PM.
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 10th May 18, 6:55 PM
    • 3,584 Posts
    • 3,157 Thanks
    Hoploz
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 6:55 PM
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 6:55 PM
    Did you pay for a valuation?

    We have recently been sorting a remortgage for a property and the valuation for the new mortgage has come in very low, when two similar properties have recently sold for a lot more.

    We are told that the lender has done a paper valuation only (eg comparing price paid x years ago with regional price index) If we want a more accurate valuation done we would need to pay the fee of 395 or something. It hasn't been an issue for us as it's a low LTV loan but could be problematic in other circumstances.

    Could this be the same sort of thing?
    • OUNN
    • By OUNN 10th May 18, 6:59 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    OUNN
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 6:59 PM
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 6:59 PM
    Does the valuation affect you other than you disagree with it?
    Does it push you into a different LTV bracket, and change the rate available to you?

    If not, it's annoying that the surveyor has potentially been unable to put the valuation on the property that you feel is worth - but in the grand scheme of things it's only an annoyance.

    Perhaps it's only with that in a sluggish and unpredictable market?
    But ultimately, because you're not selling, the value of your house matters little. It's only what it's worth when you come to sell that is when it's important! (Unless the valuation puts your interest rate up by 1% or so and your borrowing a lot of money)
    • ClaireMC
    • By ClaireMC 10th May 18, 7:17 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    ClaireMC
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 7:17 PM
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 7:17 PM
    I am looking to raise money as a deposit on another house (we have moved counties and are renting at the moment). I would much prefer to sell the existing house but due to the market we are going to rent it out instead (another one of those accidental landlords unfortunately). We have seen a house put an offer in as we had the AIP but this valuation scuppers the whole plan!!
    • ClaireMC
    • By ClaireMC 10th May 18, 7:23 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    ClaireMC
    • #8
    • 10th May 18, 7:23 PM
    • #8
    • 10th May 18, 7:23 PM
    Did you pay for a valuation?

    We have recently been sorting a remortgage for a property and the valuation for the new mortgage has come in very low, when two similar properties have recently sold for a lot more.

    We are told that the lender has done a paper valuation only (eg comparing price paid x years ago with regional price index) If we want a more accurate valuation done we would need to pay the fee of 395 or something. It hasn't been an issue for us as it's a low LTV loan but could be problematic in other circumstances.

    Could this be the same sort of thing?
    Originally posted by Hoploz
    No it was Santander who arranged it. I am going to call them in the morning but the broker says chances of an appeal are slim as they want evidence of identical properties in a 1 mile radius sold in the last 3 months and our row of houses is utterly unique which in this instance is a pain! 50K less I can understand even 75K in this climate but 150K is crazy particularity when houses so much smaller have 'just' sold!
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th May 18, 7:48 PM
    • 6,326 Posts
    • 6,184 Thanks
    eddddy
    • #9
    • 10th May 18, 7:48 PM
    • #9
    • 10th May 18, 7:48 PM
    Do Santander accept appeals and is it worth appealing - what I have seen (though very old) seems to indicate that it is not worth appealing?
    Originally posted by ClaireMC
    Remortgage valuations always seem to be low.

    You can try 'appealing', but they very rarely succeed. That would essentially involve the valuer saying to Santander - Oops! Sorry I made a mistake with my valuation!

    Santander are unlikely to continue giving business to valuers who make mistakes - in case their future mistakes go the 'wrong way'.

    So the valuer is likely to defend their valuation 'to the death'.


    FWIW, when I got a remortgage valuation, I first got some written valuations from local estate agents. I gave copies to the valuer when they visited.

    I'm pretty sure that the valuer just looked at the EA valuations, and knocked off 10% as a safety margin.
    • ex surveyor
    • By ex surveyor 10th May 18, 9:37 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    ex surveyor
    The valuer is required to report their opinion of the current 'market value' - the estimated amount for which a contract for sale of the property would exchange at on the date of valuation, assuming a willing buyer and seller and some other factors. It should therefore fairly reflect current market conditions and any other local value-significant factors.

    Valuing an unusual property in an area with no local direct comparables can be difficult for a valuer, particularly if they are not experienced in the local area (perhaps having traveled for some distance from base!) and a good local estate agent will often have a more realistic view of the price which should be obtainable. You also appear to have a broad band consensus (assumed recent) from five agents.

    Lenders will very often consider a valuation challenge, but you will need to provide details of the recent sales you refer to, including full address and at least agents' details. As it shouldn't cost you anything to do this, it's worth a shot at least.
    Retired surveyor
    Remember - your surveyor may not be as experienced as you think .........
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 10th May 18, 10:41 PM
    • 6,065 Posts
    • 2,345 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/10/celebrate-house-prices-falling-britain-property-values
    • Gwendo40
    • By Gwendo40 11th May 18, 5:50 AM
    • 102 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    Gwendo40
    I'm looking for insight and guidance not trolling! There is no need for your comment is there? I never understand why people feel the need to comment like this. Does it make you feel better? I am sure that you would be perfectly nice to my face but there is something about been invisible behind a computer that brings out the viciousness in some people!

    I KNOW valuations v EA are very different but when a house smaller then mine - MUCH smaller, has just sold for far more than my valuation, then there is a discrepancy here! In this post I was asking regarding the value of appealing from people on here who may be expert or in a similar situation.
    Originally posted by ClaireMC
    I wasn't ''trolling'' and I could give you a more detailed response regarding you having an unrealistic opinion of what your house is actually worth, but there's no point, you're obviously just another delusional homeowner who's only interested in hearing what they want to hear as far as the value of their property is concerned. Your use of the phrase ''accidental landlord'' confirms all my suspicions.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/house-prices/11332217/Deluded-sellers-and-sky-high-house-prices-have-stalled-the-property-market.html
    Last edited by Gwendo40; 11-05-2018 at 5:52 AM.
    • jimbog
    • By jimbog 11th May 18, 6:29 AM
    • 681 Posts
    • 1,101 Thanks
    jimbog
    From your link:

    the chance of a house-price crash is currently remote. More likely, prices will stay where they are while incomes catch up
    The problem with quotations on the internet is that you can never verify their authenticity - Abraham Lincoln
    • ClaireMC
    • By ClaireMC 11th May 18, 8:55 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    ClaireMC
    I wasn't ''trolling'' and I could give you a more detailed response regarding you having an unrealistic opinion of what your house is actually worth, but there's no point, you're obviously just another delusional homeowner who's only interested in hearing what they want to hear as far as the value of their property is concerned. Your use of the phrase ''accidental landlord'' confirms all my suspicions.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/house-prices/11332217/Deluded-sellers-and-sky-high-house-prices-have-stalled-the-property-market.html
    Originally posted by Gwendo40
    Have you read the forum etiquette above? No need to be rude and name call - that is the definition of trolling by the way!
    • wesleyad
    • By wesleyad 11th May 18, 10:10 AM
    • 207 Posts
    • 162 Thanks
    wesleyad
    I would much prefer to sell the existing house but due to the market we are going to rent it out instead (another one of those accidental landlords unfortunately).
    Originally posted by ClaireMC
    You might not want to hear it but that's the problem. You aren't willing to sell because, as you say, the market isn't meeting the price you have in your head. In other words it's current market value is unacceptable to you and you are hoping this will recity at some point. However santander don't care about some point, they are valuing on today's market value.
    • caprikid1
    • By caprikid1 11th May 18, 10:30 AM
    • 589 Posts
    • 593 Thanks
    caprikid1
    Don't forget that any house purchase is made up of deposit + mortgage, whereas you're only looking at the 'mortgage' part of that amount, so it'll naturally be less than the 725k total which the EAs are touting.

    However, given you're now also essentially going through the same process as your would-be buyers were when you were selling, you're probably now finding out why the market is "sluggish and rather unpredictable"...
    Originally posted by ReadingTim

    Sorry but this is 100% wrong and you clearly don't understand the mortgage market and valuations.


    The valuation has nothing to do with deposits or the amount being borrowed.
    The valuation is an independent specialist who "looks" at the property and assess how much he believes the property is worth. He knows nothing of what is being put down as a deposit or borrowed. He looks at the condition of the property and what other property have sold for. Valuations will often be lower than Estate agency valuations but should be close to comparable sale prices. I recently had a valuation that came in at 350K when the estate agents said 395 / 400K. He will naturally be conservative, he is not in a bidding war nor does he love the property and want it as forever home.
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 11th May 18, 10:38 AM
    • 11,620 Posts
    • 11,231 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    Did you get a great deal when you bought it?
    Have you extended it since buying it?
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 11th May 18, 10:48 AM
    • 2,669 Posts
    • 3,814 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    Sorry but this is 100% wrong and you clearly don't understand the mortgage market and valuations.


    The valuation has nothing to do with deposits or the amount being borrowed.
    The valuation is an independent specialist who "looks" at the property and assess how much he believes the property is worth. He knows nothing of what is being put down as a deposit or borrowed. He looks at the condition of the property and what other property have sold for. Valuations will often be lower than Estate agency valuations but should be close to comparable sale prices. I recently had a valuation that came in at 350K when the estate agents said 395 / 400K. He will naturally be conservative, he is not in a bidding war nor does he love the property and want it as forever home.
    Originally posted by caprikid1
    I had assumed it was a case of 'what an EA claimed they could sell it for' vs 'what a bank would lend to buy it for' - the valuation will be less optimistic than the EA, plus the bank is unlikely to lend 100% LTV.

    Furthermore, given the OP was talking about remortgaging because they wouldn't sell, I had inferred the main basis of their post/rant was that they're going to get far less money from the bank than they thought they were 'promised' by the EA, part of which is usually account for by the buyers' deposit (which the bank isn't overly concerned if the buyer loses due to a fall in house prices...)
    • Flossyfloo2
    • By Flossyfloo2 11th May 18, 10:53 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Flossyfloo2
    Thank you to the OP for posting this...we!!!8217;re in a similar position right now-except our house value doesn!!!8217;t come anywhere near yours and we!!!8217;re partly remortgaging to consolidate our renovation related costs/debts. Our valuation has come in 20000 less than what we proposed to the lender (30000 less than zoopla incase I!!!8217;m seen as unrealistic)... it makes a huge difference to our LTV and therefore the rates we can be offered... our lender has told one of us there are no notes to say why, the other of us has been told there are no comparable properties... we bought two years ago have done massive renovations to a home that needed everything possible seen to, we!!!8217;ve also added high quality f and fs and a bedroom... the market round here is said to have increased over 5% over the last year and yet all we are being offered as a value is what next door paid for theirs 10 years ago with one (or two as their loft is not approved) less bedroom and without the design flow and f and fs... there are lots of properties with the same basic description in the town (ie semi 4 bed two receptions 2 baths...) ours has things they don!!!8217;t-huge gardens for example, yet they!!!8217;re priced (I appreciate there are differences between a !!!8220;for sale!!!8221; price and valuation btw) sometimes 10000 more... I!!!8217;m beginning to wonder if the valuers are told to go low for the rates... any constructive feedback welcome !!!55357;!!!56911;!!!55356;!!!57339;
    • ClaireMC
    • By ClaireMC 11th May 18, 10:53 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    ClaireMC
    I have gone about this sensibly folks and I am not greedy or unrealistic. I understand that surveyors err on the side of caution (as do I) but I think in this case all the evidence points to the fact that the valuation seems very wide of every other professional estimate. Indeed it is around 20 per cent lower than everything else and I know that the market is volatile at the moment but the valuers estimate of 575K does not seem at all accurate.

    1. Valuations in the last 12 months from Estate Agents (I have emails and letters from them)
    a. 700k-725k
    b. 700-725
    c. 717k
    d. 700k
    e. 710-750
    f. 700k
    2. We received an offer of 675k in Jan/Feb which fell through as the buyer was self-employed and could not secure his mortgage.
    3. The property is unique in the area as it is a Victorian building formerly part of a conversion; there are only two other houses like it in neighbouring blocks and they have not been up for sale in over 18 years.
    a. There have been two house sales this year on my street
    I. Property One; asking price of 550k and they accepted 525k in Jan as they wanted a quick sale which they got. This property is 1222 sq. ft. of living space.
    II. Property Two; asking price of 600k and was sold for 605K in April. This property is 1249 sq. ft. of living space.

    My property is 2100 sq. ft. of living space.

    According to Land Registry figures of sq. footage for terraced properties in the area, this currently stands at 394 per sq. ft., even if we said that conservatively this is reduced to 350 that would still value my property at 735k. Current Estate agents have said that all properties on my road go for over 400 per sq.ft. and sales over the last few years, including the recent two, corroborate this. If we were to look at the surveyor's valuation this would equate to 273 per sq. ft. Land Registry has 1-2 bed flats in the area selling at 384 per sq.ft.!!

    I understand the market and that a house is only worth what someone will pay for it and I am not pushing for the top-end estimate as I know that I would not pay that and I think the EAs are unrealistic but equally so is this valuation if you look at the facts. Not sure why some people are so upset - all I am seeking is some advice - thank you @eddddy & @ ex surveyor in particular.
    Last edited by ClaireMC; 11-05-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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