Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • kaggy30
    • By kaggy30 10th May 18, 7:09 AM
    • 36Posts
    • 42Thanks
    kaggy30
    Intestacy rules and trust fund - please help :(
    • #1
    • 10th May 18, 7:09 AM
    Intestacy rules and trust fund - please help :( 10th May 18 at 7:09 AM
    Hello all,

    Glad I have found you guys and I'm really hoping someone can help us?


    - In 2013, my Nan passed away leaving my Mum and her eldest brother. Her Dad and her younger brother had passed a few years before.

    - Just before my Nan passed away she made a will out to exclude her other granddaughter due to an ongoing abuse from her for years.

    - At the time when my Nan made the will she included her home and it was to be divided as such:
    • 25% to go into a secure trust fund for her eldest brother whom was in a residential care home for schizophrenia and various other mental health problems. This was set up by solicitors whereby the state could not touch his share whilst in care.
    • The other 25% to go to my Mum.
    • The remaining 50% would be divided up between myself and my 2 siblings.

    - My Mum then moved into her family home and myself and my siblings signed a disclaimer to state that we would not force her to sell up so she could stay there.

    - Recently, her eldest brother sadly passed away due to negligence from the care home (this is a separate matter which we will pursue) this left just my Mum left out of her family.

    - Unaware to us, the Deputy Ship has recently contacted us to let us know that my Mums eldest brother had savings of 40k in his bank account which had accumilated over time.

    - It was at this point we contact our solicitors just to inform them of him passing and about the money in his account.

    - The solicitor then informed us of some horrible news that half of that money would automatically be passed to her younger brothers daughter (the one that my Nan deliberately left out of the will) my Mums niece. This is because her younger brother has died leaving his daughter behind.

    - My Mum is the only living sibling and cannot understand how this money can be passed to her niece when my Mum was my older brother next of kin.

    - We have been told that we now have to make contact with the niece. As you can imagine this is extremely difficult as we dont have contact or no how to contact her. This is hurting us so much because this girl has done nothing but abuse our family and now she gets to inherit this money.

    Questions?

    - Why does she inherit this money?

    - Is there a way to contest it?

    - Does this mean my Mums niece will now automatically inherit her Uncles share of the house that was put into a trust fund?

    - Can she force my Mum to move out of the home by forcing her to sell?

    Please please can someone help?? This is pushing my Mum over the edge and we cant afford solicitor fees constantly.

    Many thanks

    Kay













    -
Page 1
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 10th May 18, 8:01 AM
    • 2,070 Posts
    • 1,393 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #2
    • 10th May 18, 8:01 AM
    • #2
    • 10th May 18, 8:01 AM
    If brother did not leave a will I would have thought 100% of his estate would go to his children in equal shares.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 10th May 18, 8:10 AM
    • 4,995 Posts
    • 5,559 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 10th May 18, 8:10 AM
    • #3
    • 10th May 18, 8:10 AM
    Check the following online tool which shows you who will inherited under intestacy rules.

    https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

    You cannot challenge them, but you do need to take professional advice with regard to the trust.

    If she does inherit part of the house, unless your mum has a lifetime interest, then a forced sale could take place, but if there is sufficient cash in the estate to pay her share then you don!!!8217;t have a problem. If that is not the case then you guys could simply by her share of the house out.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 10th May 18, 8:14 AM
    • 4,995 Posts
    • 5,559 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 8:14 AM
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 8:14 AM
    If brother did not leave a will I would have thought 100% of his estate would go to his children in equal shares.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    I rather assumed he had no children, otherwise this makes no sense.
    • kaggy30
    • By kaggy30 10th May 18, 8:15 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    kaggy30
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 8:15 AM
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 8:15 AM
    My Mums eldest brother, who recently passed and had the trust fund does not have any children. They want to give the money to his deceased younger brothers daughter. My Mums niece.

    So 50% to my Mum and 50% to her niece
    • kaggy30
    • By kaggy30 10th May 18, 8:17 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    kaggy30
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 8:17 AM
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 8:17 AM
    As she inherits half of his savings we are assuming that she will also inherit half of his money which was in a trust fund with the estate. This is what the solicitor has said in a phone call. She gave no advice about the trust fund that was setup.
    • TonyMMM
    • By TonyMMM 10th May 18, 8:20 AM
    • 2,651 Posts
    • 2,928 Thanks
    TonyMMM
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 8:20 AM
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 8:20 AM
    If the eldest brother died intestate, then yes, his estate is distributed strictly according to law. If he had no wife or children and his parents are dead then his siblings will inherit equal shares and (if they have pre-deceased him) their children.

    There is nothing you can challenge.

    Whether the house/cash placed in trust is part of his estate may depend on the exact wording of your Nan's will.

    Someone needs to apply to be the administrator of his estate - if you or mum don't do so, then his niece could apply herself (which may not be what you want).

    If solicitor costs are necessarily incurred in dealing with the estate, then they can be paid from the estate funds before the residue is distributed.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 10th May 18, 8:27 AM
    • 37,238 Posts
    • 156,868 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #8
    • 10th May 18, 8:27 AM
    • #8
    • 10th May 18, 8:27 AM
    Why does she inherit this money?
    Simply because your mum's elder brother died without a will, so the laws of intestacy divide his estate. Be very clear, it is his estate that is being divided, not your late nan's estate.

    Your late nan left a will, so her estate was distributed according to that.
    That distribution has been completed.

    This is a different person and so his estate is divided according to the rules. With no children, his 2 siblings inherit equally. Even though one pre-deceased him, their offspring ie the abusive niece is fully entitled to her late father's share.

    What may be more interesting is how the trust was set up for the now deceased brother ie what happens to the residual money in the trust now that the brother has passed.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 10th May 18, 8:35 AM
    • 37,238 Posts
    • 156,868 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #9
    • 10th May 18, 8:35 AM
    • #9
    • 10th May 18, 8:35 AM
    It seems that your mum is now living in a home that is 25% owned by the trust fund set up for your uncle.

    Now you uncle has died, half his estate is left to the niece, so ownership of the home could be:

    12.5% niece
    37.5% mum (ie her 25%+12.5% inherited from brother)
    16.7% x 3 to each of you and your siblings.

    This assumes that the trust fund forms part of the brother's estate.

    It may be that nan's estate was sorted in a way that the trust fund received more of nan's savings in return for the house totally going to your nan (and possibly you + siblings). That would make the home safe from the niece.

    One indication may be whether your mum was paying some rent (for the trust's share of the house) to the trust.
    • dresdendave
    • By dresdendave 10th May 18, 5:57 PM
    • 750 Posts
    • 927 Thanks
    dresdendave
    It seems that your mum is now living in a home that is 25% owned by the trust fund set up for your uncle.

    Now you uncle has died, half his estate is left to the niece, so ownership of the home could be:

    12.5% niece
    37.5% mum (ie her 25%+12.5% inherited from brother)
    16.7% x 3 to each of you and your siblings.

    This assumes that the trust fund forms part of the brother's estate.

    It may be that nan's estate was sorted in a way that the trust fund received more of nan's savings in return for the house totally going to your nan (and possibly you + siblings). That would make the home safe from the niece.

    One indication may be whether your mum was paying some rent (for the trust's share of the house) to the trust.
    Originally posted by silvercar
    If the above is correct, would the niece be able to expect to receive 12.5% of the market rent from the occupier of the house she now part owns?
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 10th May 18, 7:31 PM
    • 956 Posts
    • 630 Thanks
    Brynsam
    Why are you asking here? You already have a solicitor advising you and they are more likely to be correct than mainly-unqualified strangers working on a rather garbled version of events. You aren't going to get some sort of second opinion of any value, I'm afraid.

    Ask the questions of your advising professional - the answers may be unwelcome but there is no merit in starting a debate here in the hope of getting an answer which is more to your taste. I'm sorry not to add a more positive note to this thread, but you do need to establish the legally accurate position, not just take soundings from people who don't know the full position.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 10th May 18, 8:41 PM
    • 531 Posts
    • 313 Thanks
    Dox
    H
    - My Mum is the only living sibling and cannot understand how this money can be passed to her niece when my Mum was my older brother next of kin.
    -
    Originally posted by kaggy30
    That old chestnut: 'the law says so'. If a son or daughter has already died, their children (the grandchildren of the deceased) inherit in their place - and that appears to be the situation here in respect of the 40,000 cash. Perhaps you and your mother could focus on the fact that, out of the blue, she has inherited 20,000 she didn't even know about, rather than bemoaning the fact that someone who (in your eyes) is undeserving has also inherited. Sadly that is what happens when people don't make wills.

    What nobody here can comment on is the house, because nobody has seen the relevant documentation. That really does need input from a solicitor who has all the facts - but as your grandmother did leave a will, there is every chance all will be well on that front. Your mum needs to spend part of her windfall getting advice to set her mind at rest - or at least ensure she knows where she stands.
    Last edited by Dox; 10-05-2018 at 9:18 PM.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 13th May 18, 7:51 PM
    • 5,160 Posts
    • 6,412 Thanks
    theoretica
    Before this 40k is distributed, you need to be absolutely sure the state isn't going to reclaim some of it. It is the sort of sum that would affect means tested benefits, so your uncle could well have been overpaid.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,695Posts Today

6,508Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin